Black Lives Matter

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, HeliX said:

This commentary on policing is basically what I've been trying to say the whole time, only more concise. And considerably more sweary.

Did you enjoy it? I like John Olivers show, but it gets a bit samey and preachy sometimes. This episode was pretty bloody good though. And very sweary.

[Andy Onchan]

33 minutes ago, d.r said:

No one went around saying ALL Lives Matter! before Black Lives Matter was a popular slogan. When this is used today, it is not a general statement of benign do-gooder fact, it is a direct rejection to a movement trying desperately to highlight a horrific problem in our society. It’s like walking around with swastika on your chest announcing it’s an ancient symbol of peace. Well, yes it is, good for you, but now it also has another meaning — so does ALL Lives Matter! So stop using it if you think that’s all it means. 

Black Lives Matter.

This is my last post on this BLM matter. Because it seems to me that people are missing the real issue here.

All lives matter when it comes to police brutality and use of excess force. Make no mistake, that is the real issue is here.

There are many, many cases of other people, not just black, that are being brutalised by US and other police forces around the world. You only have to see what the police did to the old guy in Buffalo.  

Please, look at the root cause. It's bad policing, very bad policing.

For sure there is an element of racism in all police institutions but let's not ignore the elephant, shall we?

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Did you enjoy it? I like John Olivers show, but it gets a bit samey and preachy sometimes. This episode was pretty bloody good though. And very sweary.

I did, similar to you I find John Oliver a bit... I dunno. I'm too old for people being that energetic at me for half an hour most days.

It does seem like he's recently read the same book as me though!

[d.r]

44 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

This is my last post on this BLM matter. Because it seems to me that people are missing the real issue here.

All lives matter when it comes to police brutality and use of excess force. Make no mistake, that is the real issue is here.

There are many, many cases of other people, not just black, that are being brutalised by US and other police forces around the world. You only have to see what the police did to the old guy in Buffalo.  

Please, look at the root cause. It's bad policing, very bad policing.

For sure there is an element of racism in all police institutions but let's not ignore the elephant, shall we?

If all races were equally affected by unwarranted police brutality and murder, a slogan like ALL lives matter! would make sense. But that is not the case. Black people are experiencing unwarranted police violence at a far higher rate than any other race. And I would say the "element of racism" is something we need to address urgently and aggressively. So highlighting that in the slogan seems like a good idea to me. And it's working. So if you believe all lives matter you can support that by supporting Black Lives Matter. If you want to start your own movement against police brutality, go for it. I just don't see why you'd want to hinder the progress of a movement just because they are starting with the worst part of this problem.

[P.K.]

4 minutes ago, d.r said:

If all races were equally affected by unwarranted police brutality and murder, a slogan like ALL lives matter! would make sense. But that is not the case. Black people are experiencing unwarranted police violence at a far higher rate than any other race. And I would say the "element of racism" is something we need to address urgently and aggressively. So highlighting that in the slogan seems like a good idea to me. And it's working. So if you believe all lives matter you can support that by supporting Black Lives Matter. If you want to start your own movement against police brutality, go for it. I just don't see why you'd want to hinder the progress of a movement just because they are starting with the worst part of this problem.

How is not wanting to be a part of BLM hindering it?

[d.r]

41 minutes ago, P.K. said:

How is not wanting to be a part of BLM hindering it?

I wasn't suggesting that if you don't actively join BLM you are, because of that, actively hindering it.

I think that people who keep suggesting ALL lives matter! is a better way to describe the problem are taking the racist element out of it. I also think racism is a big part of this problem and that actually should be highlighted. While I think discussion is important, stopping to discuss IF racism is part of this problem or not, or to what extent, is slowing everything down. Sometimes that's important so we get things right, but at this point with this particular cause I see that as a hindrance. Racism is a big part of this problem, hence highlighted it with the phrase Black Lives Matter. Yes yes, we care about all people because we're all saints. But let's focus on this particular problem while it actually has a chance of creating real change, for real people, who really are getting murdered right now because of their race. 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by d.r

[Mr Newbie]

7 minutes ago, d.r said:

I think that people who keep suggesting ALL lives matter! is a better way to describe the problem are taking the racist element out of it. I also think racism is a big part of this problem and that actually should be highlighted. While I think discussion is important, stopping to discuss IF racism is part of this problem or not, or to what extent, is slowing everything down. Sometimes that's important so we get things right, but at this point with this particular cause I see that as a hindrance. Racism is a big part of this problem, hence highlighted it with the phrase Black Lives Matter. Yes yes, we care about all people because we're all saints. But let's focus on this particular problem while it actually has a chance of creating real change, for real people, who really are getting murdered right now because of their race. 

 

[hissingsid]

All lives matter....end of ...see we have another newbie coming on trying to Sabre rattle.   Until you understand that all lives matter you will not be a decent human being so start understanding and stop listening to idiots who are trying to justify the dreadful actions they have been taking in the UK.    Comprehend Jordon, listen and learn.

[hissingsid]

Nice to see Stu joining us.

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, d.r said:

I wasn't suggesting that if you don't actively join BLM you are, because of that, actively hindering it.

I think that people who keep suggesting ALL lives matter! is a better way to describe the problem are taking the racist element out of it. I also think racism is a big part of this problem and that actually should be highlighted. While I think discussion is important, stopping to discuss IF racism is part of this problem or not, or to what extent, is slowing everything down. Sometimes that's important so we get things right, but at this point with this particular cause I see that as a hindrance. Racism is a big part of this problem, hence highlighted it with the phrase Black Lives Matter. Yes yes, we care about all people because we're all saints. But let's focus on this particular problem while it actually has a chance of creating real change, for real people, who really are getting murdered right now because of their race. 

I think discussion is important too.

Which is why, after the shenanigans on Manx Radio the other evening, I won't be supporting your cause...

[d.r]

7 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I think discussion is important too.

Which is why, after the shenanigans on Manx Radio the other evening, I won't be supporting your cause...

The fact that a discussion about this could not happen on Manx Radio has nothing to do with BLM or anyone except Stu Peters and Manx Radio. IMO the presenter did a pretty terrible job at stimulating good discussion on the topic and helping the (not professional debater) who called in through the points he wanted to make. 

I sincerely hope you don't really support or not support causes based on how well a single radio presenter is able to approach the issue. Instead, you can discuss it elsewhere, like here.

[gettafa]

1 hour ago, d.r said:

The fact that a discussion about this could not happen on Manx Radio has nothing to do with BLM or anyone except Stu Peters and Manx Radio. IMO the presenter did a pretty terrible job at stimulating good discussion on the topic and helping the (not professional debater) who called in through the points he wanted to make. 

I sincerely hope you don't really support or not support causes based on how well a single radio presenter is able to approach the issue. Instead, you can discuss it elsewhere, like here.

 

You got the radio presenter's head. You got the taste of blood now.

Does it feel good?

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by gettafa

[d.r]

1 hour ago, hissingsid said:

All lives matter....end of ...see we have another newbie coming on trying to Sabre rattle.   Until you understand that all lives matter you will not be a decent human being so start understanding and stop listening to idiots who are trying to justify the dreadful actions they have been taking in the UK.    Comprehend Jordon, listen and learn.

I understand that not a lot of people come to the internet to have their minds changed. But my premises are these:

1. Saying all lives matter right now is a direct response to the Black Lives Matter movement.

2. That response is signaling that you disagree with the movement.

 

If you think saying all lives matter is not a direct response to the BLM movement, well a lot of people are gonna misinterpret that right now so I’d think about what you actually want to communicate and for the time being maybe try to use a different phrase. But that means we are not talking about the same thing so you should probably just ignore the rest of this discussion.

If you disagree with BLM because you think it makes race too prominent, well that’s totally up to you and your opinion but I think you are wrong, probably because you misunderstand the extent to which racism actually does play a role.

If you think saying Black Lives Matter somehow implies a person does not think all lives matter, I wanna know know you why think that, because I don’t think it implies that at all. Focusing the worst affected group of lives first has been the most successful way so far to highlight and change police violence against ALL civilians. And it's starting with those worst affected. I don’t yet understand why some people are actively against this.

Edited June 8, 2020 by d.r

[Scotty]

1 minute ago, d.r said:

I understand that not a lot of people come to the internet to have their minds changed. But my premises are these:

1. Saying all lives matter right now is a direct response to the Black Lives Matter movement.

2. That response is signaling that you disagree with the movement.

 

If you think saying all lives matter is not a direct response to the BLM movement, well a lot of people are gonna misinterpret that right now so I’d think about what you actually want to communicate and for the time being maybe try to use a different phrase. But that means we are not talking about the same thing so you should probably just ignore the rest of this discussion.

If you disagree with BLM because you think it makes race too prominent, well that’s totally up to you and your opinion but I think you are wrong, probably because you misunderstand the extent to which racism actually does play a role.

If you think saying Black Lives Matter somehow implies a person does not think all lives matter, I wanna know know you why think that, because I don’t think it implies that at all. Focusing the worst affected group of lives first has been the most successful way so far to highlight and change police violence against civilians. And it's starting with those worst affected. I don’t yet understand why some people are actively against this.

Bandwagons matter. All violence is wrong. All criminals are wrong. All Police brutality is wrong. All coercion to riot and loot is wrong.

It can be a shit life for us all at times. Why try to cause rifts.

[SJR]

There are probably 90 000 people on this Island including illegals so let us see how many turn up on the march.If 45 001 turn up then we should hand over the keys to Tynwald.If the usual few dozen "liberals" make an appearance plus the downtrodden "blacks" as I believe is the fashionable term plus schoolchildren and those teachers that will be too scared to teach next week are the only ones then perhaps the Lady Of Mann should be ready and waiting to sail to the USA and let the rest of us get on with it.