Black Lives Matter

[thommo2010]

10 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

On the face of that I would agree.

However, you do have to wonder how this situation needed to escalate to a man being shot 3 times in the back.

I assume the guy had been searched so at this stage the biggest danger is that one man has potential use of a taser against two armed police officers who I assume still had a taser and various other defence methods available to them?

Lethal force doesn't need to be the only option here.   I get the concept of only shooting with the intention of killing someone but this could have had a different outcome.

The only person who can decide what level of force is needed is the person dealing with the situation. It's easy to look at it days later from behind the safety of a computer screen and say x y or z should have done. 

My issue with that story is it appears to be saying this was all the fault of the police officers when that quite clearly isnt the case.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

Clearly it isn't all their fault.

But it is also clear there could have been another outcome here.

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

The only person who can decide what level of force is needed is the person dealing with the situation. It's easy to look at it days later from behind the safety of a computer screen and say x y or z should have done. 

My issue with that story is it appears to be saying this was all the fault of the police officers when that quite clearly isnt the case.

But what the person dealing with it deems appropriate is dictated by

His ethnicity

His Social attitudes

His training

what he thinks he can get away with

the weapons and other equipment issued and carried.

[Neil Down]

7 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Clearly it isn't all their fault.

But it is also clear there could have been another outcome here.

Maybe the "victim" shouldn't have taken the officer's taser?

[thommo2010]

7 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Clearly it isn't all their fault.

But it is also clear there could have been another outcome here.

There could have been another outcome.

The guy could not have driven drunk he could have been arrested without resisting. He could not have taken a police officers taser he could not have pointed said taser on at the officers. 

The "victim" could have done a lot to change the outcome

[woolley]

On 6/11/2020 at 7:14 PM, Gladys said:

20/20 hindsight is a superpower we all have but it needs to be used with discretion and also against the context of the time.  

I think a lot of the hindsight right now is a long way from 20/20, actually. 

[Mr Newbie]

21 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

The "victim" could have done a lot to change the outcome

Yes if only all criminals seriously thought about the impact of committing crime before actually committing crime. 

[Max Power]

11 hours ago, Max Power said:

A man is stabbed in the neck today at the protests, he has apparently since died?

I am now assuming that this is 'fake news?' 

It's all over some social media and causing lots of anger but it's not on any mainstream news site?

[thommo2010]

I think this is a good video

 

[Shake me up Judy]

Absolutely Thommo. The police are working under massive provocation and pressure a lot of the time. No sympathy for the guy. If the police stop you, then you do as you're told and STFU. These guys have no respect for the badge or the cops, who are only doing their job. Where there is zero respect for the police then these things will happen. If you pinch an officer's taser then the gloves are off and anything can happen. They face it everyday. Whenever I've been in the States I wouldn't say boo to any of the coppers, and that's the way it should be. Too many people delude themselves about the reality of policing in the U.S. and swallow the anti-police rhetoric without engaging their brain cell.  

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

23 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

There could have been another outcome.

The guy could not have driven drunk he could have been arrested without resisting. He could not have taken a police officers taser he could not have pointed said taser on at the officers. 

The "victim" could have done a lot to change the outcome

Could the police have acted differently?

Were their lives at risk do you think?

I'm not disputing the victim could have done things differently.   He definitely could.

Put in simple terms, if that was a situation on the island and it was your son would you think, being unarmed aside of a taser, that death would be the right outcome?

I dont see this as a race issue.  It just seems to be that the constant "shoot to kill first and worry about it later" results in situations like this where he had been shot 3 times in the back.  Something isn't right there.

A bit like something wasn't right when the Met murdered that fella on a train for no reason after following him, allowing him to get on the train with nothing of danger on his person.

[Freggyragh]

How do you know that Juan? I'll agree that police forces in the US are militarised and that the US generally has become even more violent since its invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not sure there are any statistics to support the notion that black people are killed by the police in disproportionate numbers, although the US does have really serious problems with race relations, not helped by a viciously polarising political system.

It seems in this case that a man fell asleep in his car in a queue at a drive-thru fast food place. If that had happened here I would imagine he would have been woken up by an employee of the restaurant. In Atlanta it turned into a deadly confrontation followed by a riot. I don't doubt that there are racist cops, but stating that this was a race crime from the outset is not a rational response. 

Back to Manx Radio: I never agree much with Stu Peters on anything, but his job was never to uphold whatever the current zeitgeist is. Rather, it was to challenge people to present their arguments coherently. In this atmosphere of cultural revolution, which I support, I don't think  being asked to explain your rationale is something to be denounced. 
 

[woolley]

On 6/11/2020 at 10:19 PM, Chinahand said:

I try to read most of Pongo’s posts. 

Me too. Sometimes even get to the end. 

[Shake me up Judy]

A bit like something wasn't right when the Met murdered that fella on a train for no reason after following him, allowing him to get on the train with nothing of danger on his person.

You can't possibly put yourself in the shoes of the cops who went on that train thinking the guy was about to blow it up. They were following instructions and didn't make the decisions that led to that outcome. There's been a full enquiry and I think they were fully exonerated, but I'd have to google that to check. A terrible tragedy though.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

10 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

A bit like something wasn't right when the Met murdered that fella on a train for no reason after following him, allowing him to get on the train with nothing of danger on his person.

You can't possibly put yourself in the shoes of the cops who went on that train thinking the guy was about to blow it up. They were following instructions and didn't make the decisions that led to that outcome. There's been a full enquiry and I think they were fully exonerated, but I'd have to google that to check. A terrible tragedy though.

Of course they were exonerated.   Never in doubt was it?

The bottom line is this - IF they thought he was carrying a bomb they would simply have stopped him away from the station.  Instead they confronted and shot him on a crowded train.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by The Dog's Dangly Bits