HeliX Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, gettafa said: You do know. You just can't bring yourself to say it. And it's not a little thing of course. It is to equalise and level everyone, right across the board. ? Of course I can bring myself to say that, but it's a question of how to get there innit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: Then back to the digs to make briquettes.... What would Alf have made of BLM? Alf wud've 'ad nowt to do wi' em... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, P.K. said: All you have to do is run faster than the person with you! You should be fine then after your record breaking exit from the Island. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, HeliX said: Which police tried a light touch at BLM protests? I don't think US police did! Camden New Jersey tried demilitarising their police locally and it seems to have worked well. The UK police did, and that's what I am talking about. The protesters took advantage and went berserk, lots of unpunished law breaking. The police need to uphold the law, we depend on them for our security. If they can not do it, we are all in danger and minorities or majority, we should all be observant of the same laws and recieve the same punishment for breaking them. That includes stoning police officers, tearing down and defacing statues and terrorising others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Max Power said: The UK police did, and that's what I am talking about. The protesters took advantage and went berserk, lots of unpunished law breaking. The police need to uphold the law, we depend on them for our security. If they can not do it, we are all in danger and minorities or majority, we should all be observant of the same laws and recieve the same punishment for breaking them. That includes stoning police officers, tearing down and defacing statues and terrorising others! Would the police being more heavily armed have made the situation better or worse? It certainly doesn't seem to have made it better in the US protests... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, quilp said: I plagarise... "Was there ever a time when honest disagreement over contentious issues was deemed permissible? Were we ever truly free to say what we believed, without fear that the Thought Police would come calling? Was it always the case that a rigid conformity of opinion held sway on certain questions, with all dissent destined to be met by a wild hysteria and demands for swift recantation? It is easy, when surveying the public square today, characterised as it is by such deep-rooted uniformity and a climate in which any form of resistance constitutes a revolutionary act, to conclude that things must have been this way for all time. That the uncompromising group-think that pervades much of our discourse has always existed. That freedom of expression and the 'marketplace of ideas' are obscure concepts peddled only by heretics and those with a kamikaze disregard for their own reputations or careers. Like a prisoner who, as his sentence grinds on, finds it increasingly difficult to recall a time when he enjoyed liberty, our society risks falling into the trap of believing that the ever-tightening constraints placed on our freedoms have always bound us. It is not so, of course. In fact, we don't have to travel too far back to identify a time when our culture was quite different. If someone said or did something crass or thoughtless - even if the act was committed in the full glare of publicity - society would generally react by curling its lip or tutting or dismissing the culprit for an idiot. And then the world would move on. Nobody had been injured, nobody died, and one person might have been left feeling a bit embarrassed or sheepish. Real opprobrium was reserved for those who truly deserved it. How the world has changed. It seems unimaginable today that someone - particularly anyone with a public profile - could depart from the orthodoxy on any subject of delicacy or contention, especially one of cultural sensitivity, without inviting the now-customary storms of outrage. These usually begin with a rabid kind of finger-pointing, invariably conducted through social media, and very quickly progress to demands for an apology, appeals to the transgressor's employer that he be fired from his job and, where the individual enjoys anybsort of prominence, an insistence he be banished from public life for good. The actual merit of the person's words or actions are irrelevant. All that was necessary for the pitchfork-wielders to do their worst was that 'offence' had been caused. When the storm eventually passes, the person is likely to find himself excommunicated from polite society. The disturbing thing is that this 'cancel-culture' has taken hold not because it can claim support among the mass of the population, but because a minority of intolerant fanatics has somehow managed to cow everyone else into submission. They have effectively been allowed to set the boundaries of acceptable debate on certain topics, to decide on behalf of us all what constitutes a legitimate opinion, and to determine the sanction to be imposed upon anyone who refuses to comply. And, faced with this growing threat to our freedoms, our ruling class, including most figures in the fields of politics, business, the media and public services have cravenly folded. Worse, in many cases they have actively sided with the zealots. Which brings me to Jake Hepple. I have little doubt that Mr. Hepple is a bit of an oaf. I'm not sure what he was trying to achieve when he arranged to have a plane trailing a "White Lives Matter" banner fly over a football stadium in Manchester when a match was taking place. He may've simply wished to make mischief or court publicity. Or perhaps his actions were genuinely intended as a sardonic rebuke to the Black Lives Matter movement and some of its more questionable aims and tactics (which, in spite of what we are led to believe, do not command unanimous support throughout the country). Whatever his motives, it was a pretty silly thing to do. Of itself, however, the message plainly wasn't offensive. White lives do matter, after all. Taken in isolation, it is a statement with which few would disagree. The response, then, to this stuoid stunt should have been to shake our heads at its puerility and hope the perpetrator faded into obscurity as quickly as he had come to our attention. But of course, in these days when, "silence is violence", quiet dismissal of Hepple would have been tantamount to endorsement of his actions. So the wheels of the bandwagon started rolling, and everyone duly clambered aboard. First up was Burnley Football Club, whose players were taking part in the match inside the stadium (while, it should be noted, displaying the slogan, "Black Lives Matter" on their jerseys) and if whom Hepple is a supporter. The banner was "offensive" said the club in a statement, before going on to pledge that those responsible would be issued with a lifetime ban. Then,so it seemed, anyone and everyone who might in some way be connected, however tenuously, to Hepple or the incident felt obliged to express their own words of condemnation. Blackpool Airport, from where the plane took off, said it stood against "racism of any kind" and promptly vowed to suspend all banner flights. The CEO of the UK Civil Aviation Authority itself, no less, also saw fit to weigh in, resolving to work with the police in any subsequent role. Right on cue, Lancashire police then launched an investigation, only to confirm a day later - entirely predicted - that it would not be pursuing the matter any further because no crime had been committed (thereby leaving us all to conclude that its initial actions were motivated by PR concerns than by any serious belief that the law had been broken). Football pundits tripped over themselves to express their full-throated fury and indignation - though whether they truly felt such levels of outrage or merely felt compelled to pretend they did because, well, it was expected, is another question. Most absurdly of all, a Danish Brewer issued a statement disassociating itself from Hepple and assuring us that it did not condone racism in any form after a photo emerged on the Internet showing him holding a can of its beer. I half-expected McDonald's, whose logo could be seen in the same photo, to announce that he was no longer welcome to eat their Big Mac and fries. Needless to say, after all this outcry, Hepple was sacked by his employer. On one level, some of this reaction is quite simply absurd and deserving of mockery. On another, however, it is deadly serious. Because, in the end, this isn't just about Jake Hepple. Nor is it about the Black Lives Matter movement. It's about a culture of intolerance and dogmatism that has poisoned our society - a culture that permits only a single and established view on particular questions and unleashes swift retribution upon those who dissent. A cultural revolution is taking place across our land, and opponents can expect no mercy. It is Mao Zedong meets Joseph Mccarthy. It is unhealthy; it is oppressive; it runs counter to our nation's long-cherished traditions of liberty and free expression; and it leaves millions of ordinary people feeling alienated, dismayed and bewildered. If we are ever to force a retreat - as we surely must - it will be done through the mainstream majority coming together and saying enough is enough. Until now, too many among those who wield power and influence in our society have demonstrated an abject cowardice as this new tyranny has taken hold. They have kept their heads down and hoped for an easy life. That must change. Because, if we're not careful, it will be too late to do anything about it... (By Paul Embury, firefighter, trade union activist, pro-brexit campaigner and 'Blue Labour' thinker) Oops, don't know what happened there. Double post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, HeliX said: Would the police being more heavily armed have made the situation better or worse? It certainly doesn't seem to have made it better in the US protests... I didn't say they should be heavily armed, you did. If they were wearing some sort of protection and didn't have to run away it would have made a difference. The protestors became emboldened and the police encouraged unrest by inaction. If the police can't keep order, the army will end up being deployed, with all that entails. The US deployed the National Guard, a bit like Dad's Army on steroids, the Yanks are serial over reactors, I'm talking solely about our own situation. I don't trust America to sort out anything, their country has gone to the dogs! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Max Power said: I didn't say they should be heavily armed, you did. If they were wearing some sort of protection and didn't have to run away it would have made a difference. The protestors became emboldened and the police encouraged unrest by inaction. If the police can't keep order, the army will end up being deployed, with all that entails. The US deployed the National Guard, a bit like Dad's Army on steroids, the Yanks are serial over reactors, I'm talking solely about our own situation. I don't trust America to sort out anything, their country has gone to the dogs! The UK did deploy riot police & horses etc too though. On a slight side note, I wonder how many of the people complaining about BLM protests turning violent were out trashing Liverpool over the weekend because their team won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, HeliX said: I've not seen anyone claim that to be the case. And certainly class privilege is also a gigantic problem. I suppose the main difference being that a person can change their class (though obviously there are non-changeable factors that make that easier or harder for individuals...) You can change your economic status, but you cannot change your class, caste or tribe. The "white privilege" class system does not allow it, no matter how much you have in the bank you will be a parvenu, a social climber or nouveau riche. None of which are terms indicating acceptance. Similarly, if you have the audacity to aspire to a class which your economic status does not support, you are a "two bob snob". "Class privilege" applies across a lot of societies of many races, there are very few that are truly egalitarian. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gladys said: You can change your economic status, but you cannot change your class, caste or tribe. The "white privilege" class system does not allow it, no matter how much you have in the bank you will be a parvenu, a social climber or nouveau riche. None of which are terms indicating acceptance. Similarly, if you have the audacity to aspire to a class which your economic status does not support, you are a "two bob snob". "Class privilege" applies across a lot of societies of many races, there are very few that are truly egalitarian. Is that the case? I suppose if you are still known by exactly the same people. You can certainly "buy" your way into the middle class (well, until it stops existing because austerity has squeezed it from both sides). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Max Power said: So what is the answer, what is the BLM solution to this? Read their website, they have no solutions - just trigger phrases which are pretty meaningless - or at least are not upfront about their true agenda. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, woolley said: You should be fine then after your record breaking exit from the Island. Tsk tsk. Shame on you! We made the only decision decent parents could make - as you know only too well. Consequently, despite the restrictions, I had a really wonderful Father's Day. Lockdown certainly focuses the mind, plus emotions, on events like that... But thanks for asking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 59 minutes ago, HeliX said: Would the police being more heavily armed have made the situation better or worse? It certainly doesn't seem to have made it better in the US protests... With the whole country being awash with guns of all sorts comparing policing the US to policing the UK, where the vast majority of our policemen do not carry firearms, really is comparing apples to oranges. EVERY scenario the US police come up against could turn lethal at any moment. For the stupidest of reasons. Why else do American tourists say "We think your British policemen are wonderful..." ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 55 minutes ago, HeliX said: On a slight side note, I wonder how many of the people complaining about BLM protests turning violent were out trashing Liverpool over the weekend because their team won. Strange isn't it? Why is the chaos being caused by Liverpool fans not receiving the same criticism as the BLM protests? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8467677/Mayor-Liverpool-Joe-Anderson-hits-ugly-scenes-football-fans-threw-missiles-police.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Strange isn't it? Why is the chaos being caused by Liverpool fans not receiving the same criticism as the BLM protests? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8467677/Mayor-Liverpool-Joe-Anderson-hits-ugly-scenes-football-fans-threw-missiles-police.html It's called "thug privilege" and transcends all races, creeds and sexualities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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