Andy Onchan Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 2:43 PM, Shake me up Judy said: But hey, if Alf Tupper can make it as a successful runner anyone can... Alf always beat the white privileged, floppy haired toffs from the local public school; usually starting a lap behind and on top of a bag of fish and chips. His dad never picked him up in a Rolls Royce after the race neither. It was always the bus for Alf and he even had to run after that... Alf Tupper..... my hero.... even now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 6:08 PM, woolley said: Yes. I know a bunch of younger United fans who have only ever known the Fergie years and simply expected to win all the time. Aye..... but always (seemingly) in extra-time with a ref who was blind in one eye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 3 hours ago, quilp said: But liveries matter. Black liveries that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, quilp said: They'd have to include Bosch, VW, the Krupp family, the Swiss bankers who traded seized Nazi gold for steel supplies, oh, and Deutsch Bank, amongst others. Nowt wrong wi'that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Could have fooled me with that previous comment. Maybe not specifically Mercedes but I think you will find that Germany has been apologising for the actions of Germany in WW2 for many years now. https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/warschauer-kniefall-1970/ "Those who witnessed the scene were awe-struck: a politician actually displayed his emotions by confessing to guilt and begging for forgiveness. With his head bowed low, he froze in this position for twenty or thirty seconds. “I have been often asked what the gesture was all about. Was it planned? No, it wasn’t”. This is how Willy Brandt described the situation many years later in his memoirs: “As I stood on the edge of the Germany’s historical abyss, feeling the burden of millions of murders, I did what people do when words fail" "According to a Der Spiegel survey of the time, 48% of all West Germans thought the “Kniefall” was excessive, 41% said it was appropriate and 11% had no opinion. The Kniefall was a symbolic action the opposition tried to use against Brandt, as in a Constructive Vote of No Confidence in April 1972, which Brandt won by only two votes. Brandt’s landslide win in the next elections in late 1972 was also due to the growing view among voters that Brandt’s Ostpolitik—symbolized by the Kniefall—and his reformist domestic policies were helping to boost Germany’s international reputation and should be supported" During WW2 Brandt went into hiding from the Nazi Party who viewed him as an enemy. Yet even given his history he still fell to his knees and effectively apologised on behalf of the German people. Since then Germany has remained apposed to Nazism and has sought to teach the history and impact that these events had. So you can leave the whataboutery to one side. hardly a challenge is it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Trevor Phillips posed a question in one of his many interviews... "Is political correctness becoming as bad as the racism we fought all those years ago..?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 "Church to check all memorials for slave trade links" https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/church-to-check-all-memorials-for-slave-trade-links/ Wow! Tomb desecration next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said: "Church to check all memorials for slave trade links" https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/church-to-check-all-memorials-for-slave-trade-links/ Wow! Tomb desecration next? Well, there is at least one in Old Braddan churchyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, Gladys said: Well, there is at least one in Old Braddan churchyard. Well this could be interesting. That's part of Manx history (My history) and I'm not too happy about people, bishops or whoever, messing with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: "Church to check all memorials for slave trade links" https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/church-to-check-all-memorials-for-slave-trade-links/ Wow! Tomb desecration next? Jesus wept. Have they got fuck all better to do than audit a load of headstones which are falling to pieces and /or no one looks at or has any interest in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gladys said: Well, there is at least one in Old Braddan churchyard. I don't think the intention is to remove the slaves grave. Isn't it more about monumental tributes to those people who engaged in trading human beings? Arguably the presence of a statue to a slave trader or monument (other than a grave) which glorifies the person before God and therefore a representation of Christian values could be problematic for an organisation which has very slowly changed attitudes to try and be more inclusive. Edited June 30, 2020 by manxman1980 Insert the word "trader" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: Jesus wept. Have they got fuck all better to do than audit a load of headstones which are falling to pieces and /or no one looks at or has any interest in? Well if he exists then he probably is weeping at the lack of people attending churches. That same lack of attendance answers your question. No, the Church don't have much to do as they have lost more of their "flocks" and don't have the same role in day to day life as they did in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I don't think the intention is to remove the slaves grave. Isn't it more about monumental tributes to those people who engaged in trading human beings? Arguably the presence of a statue to a slave or monument (other than a grave) which glorifies the person before God and therefore a representation of Christian values could be problematic for an organisation which has very slowly changed attitudes to try and be more inclusive. That one would be a bit stupid though, as far as I can remember the connection with that guy and the island was that the guy from here who was Napoleons jailer freed him from slavery and brought him back here and employed him. He basically did better than a lot of people here at the time would have, I think he would have lived in what would then have be considered a mansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I don't think the intention is to remove the slaves grave. Isn't it more about monumental tributes to those people who engaged in trading human beings? Arguably the presence of a statue to a slave or monument (other than a grave) which glorifies the person before God and therefore a representation of Christian values could be problematic for an organisation which has very slowly changed attitudes to try and be more inclusive. It's just a grave and he wasn't brought here as a slave. As far as I can remember it said nice things about him on it. Edited June 30, 2020 by Lagman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Arguably the presence of a statue to a slave or monument (other than a grave) which glorifies the person before God and therefore a representation of Christian values could be problematic for an organisation which has very slowly changed attitudes to try and be more inclusive. Sorry, having a thick moment, I don't understand. Why would a monument to a slave be problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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