TheTeapot Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, FDR said: Socialism is all about state control. Literally everything they want to do involves adding more government, and doing away with free enterprise. I didn't say individualism ended slavery. I said western civilisation and its progressive development culminated in the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, and the development of the entire underlying concept of RIGHTS. There's an obvious history of progress towards "modernity" and ideas of equality and broadening the scope of democratic representation. If you nuked Europe off the planet in circa 1500, none of that progress would exist in the world today. Black Lives Matter is a brand name of a group of Marxists affiliated with the DNC. I support any measures that will help black people to not be subject to prejudice, racism or systemic disadvantage. But did it occur to you that far left agitators (most of them white people, I should add) going around causing deliberate mayhem and division is not going to solve that? No. All it's doing is causing racial division which will in turn lead to more inequality, not less. It'll increase racial segregation, not help racial harmony. Trump's done more for the black community than BLM has done. Trump has reversed the horrible criminal laws introduced by the Democrats in the 90s under Clinton (and Senator Biden) which disproportionately harmed black people and black neighborhoods. But the media inverts reality and gives us a fictional narrative where the opposite of the truth is a lie and the lie is the truth. They wouldn't get away with it if people were less gullible. When are you going to wake up and realise that media outlets owned by international corporations do not give a toss about ordinary people, white or black? They have their own agenda and they'll even exploit marxists and socialists to push for it. It's all about POWER and control. I'm not sure you know what Marxism or Socialism means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, quilp said: Do you? Yes, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, HeliX said: https://eh.net/encyclopedia/slavery-in-the-united-states/ Even the statistics on that website (let's just assume they're correct, which they're not....) indicate that slaveholders added up to only 4.3% of the total population of the Confederacy. In other words, that website says 95.7% of the population of the Confederacy did not own any slaves. Whether it was 98% or 95.7%, of the population, that's the absolute undeniable overwhelming majority of the population who didn't own slaves. It also contradicts the totally made up percentages on the History Channel website. Wow, if they can get something like that so completely wrong, do you think they might also be wrong about aliens building the pyramids? Edited July 1, 2020 by FDR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: I'm not sure you know what Marxism or Socialism means. Anybody who is "sure" of what nebulous terms mean is guaranteed to be wrong by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, FDR said: Even the statistics on that website (let's just assume they're correct, which they're not....) indicate that slaveholders added up to only 4.3% of the total population of the Confederacy. In other words, that website says 95.7% of the population of the Confederacy did not own any slaves. Whether it was 98% or 95.7%, of the population, that's the absolute undeniable overwhelming majority of the population who didn't own slaves. Do you have a link for your claimed 2%? I can't see one in the last few pages but perhaps I'm missing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 minute ago, FDR said: Anybody who is "sure" of what nebulous terms mean is guaranteed to be wrong by default. The terms being nebulous doesn't mean you can add them as decoration wherever you please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: The terms being nebulous doesn't mean you can add them as decoration wherever you please. No, but I can generalise. You have to do that when there is so much debate on the meaning of these terms. Only a couple of months ago I watched an hour-long argument between two well known economists, both of them left wing, who couldn't agree on the meaning of the word socialist. What possible hope do you think we have on Manx Forums to reach a consensus? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, HeliX said: I'm not sure you know what Marxism or Socialism means. Do you think Patrisse Cullors, co-founder of BLM, knows what a Marxist is? She describes herself as a "trained Marxist". Ironic given Marx was a total racist who could not have cared less about racial equality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, FDR said: No, but I can generalise. You have to do that when there is so much debate on the meaning of these terms. Only a couple of months ago I watched an hour-long argument between two well known economists, both of them left wing, who couldn't agree on the meaning of the word socialist. What possible hope do you think we have on Manx Forums to reach a consensus? If they were trying to define it as one thing that's daft. Socialism is an umbrella container for Communism, Anarchism, Classical Marxism, Orthodox Marxism, Revisionist Marxism (to an extent), Democratic Socialism (but not Social Democracy...) EDIT: forgot to say "and others". Edited July 1, 2020 by HeliX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 5 hours ago, hissingsid said: Well it has started several commentators are refusing to wear the BLM badge that they were asked to wear by Sky. People are realising what this organisations are. This will be the summer of discontent because a lot of people have too much time on their hands. One luvvie actor will not wear his medal , still keeping the Sir bit though I expect it helps him to get preferential treatment on the planes, because the figure on it has its foot on a black man’s neck, some years ago apparently the black man had been changed to a white man without any help fro BLM. this is according to the Daily Mail so it must be right . The footballers were instructed to take the knee apparently. So if people are doing this because they feel obliged or made to it rather takes the point away from the purpose. Not quite at the poppy day hysteria level yet though. I now donate a couple of quid but wont wear one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Apologies to anyone without a sense of humour. I wasn't seriously suggesting Amadeus should apologise for anything. It was a reference to Harry Enfield's character Jurgen. Apologies now for events of generations ago are pointless and simply feel good soundbites for people with no appetite for making difficult change - IMHO. Better express it now before opinions are banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, piebaps said: Better express it now before opinions are banned. Hopefully, the tide is turning. I really would like to see open discussion, without shouting down or accusatory responses. There are some dreadful things happening at the monent, but we will lose sight of them. I truly hope we don't, but they don't fit the narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 It's all because the US followed up electing a black man with a racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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