Black Lives Matter

[Gladys]

6 minutes ago, Declan said:

I suppose it depends by what you mean by widespread. The vast majority of people were industrial or agricultural workers who didn't have spare money to invest in anything.

BUT the ownership did extend into the middle classes, through investment schemes. It was common for widows or unmarried daughters or idiot third sons to live off a modest "private income" and often that would be shares in plantations that they never thought about. Just as our pensions are probably invested in fossil fuels and arms that we may be uncomfortable with.

So it was more widespread than the elite we may picture but it didn't extend to the majority.

The estimate is 46,000 slave owners in Britain of 800,000  slaves.  I don't  know if that is the number who applied for compensation, some may not have for various reasons, or the total of owners.

[FDR]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

You are projecting the crimes and guilt on yourself, I am not. 

You can't just ignore it in case you feel implicated, but you can learn about it. I have no guilt; I didn't participate or profit from slavery, but I do try to understand history. 

You are right that the money to meet these compensation payments were raised by taxes, and that thus impacted mostly on the poor, and so could be a form of wealth redistribution.  But that is what happened. 

Apologies. I didn't mean that you were doing that.

But these prats from Marxist group BLM and "POCIOM" are doing that. Which is ironic because most of whom are just self-entitled upper middle class white trust fund babies.

[FDR]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

The estimate is 46,000 slave owners in Britain of 800,000  slaves.  I don't  know if that is the number who applied for compensation, some may not have for various reasons, or the total of owners.

UK population in 1833 -  9 million.

46,000 slave owners = 0.51%

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

2 minutes ago, FDR said:

Apologies. I didn't mean that you were doing that.

But these prats from Marxist group BLM and "POCIOM" are doing that. Which is ironic because most of whom are just self-entitled upper middle class white trust fund babies.

It would be just better to ignore it.

[FDR]

10 minutes ago, quilp said:

Orwell did well enough from his grandfather's slave-estate. 

Orwell was an MI5 asset for most of his career.

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, FDR said:

Apologies. I didn't mean that you were doing that.

But these prats from Marxist group BLM and "POCIOM" are doing that. Which is ironic because most of whom are just self-entitled upper middle class white trust fund babies.

To be quite clear, I have zero support for either organisation, I have deep suspicions as to their motives.  I certainly do not want to apologise for something I didn't do, nor did I profit from (although I can foresee the argument that we all profited from slavery due to the benefits the profits generated for society as a whole). 

However, I do want to know about this history and to understand and empathise with the victims of it. 

[manxman1980]

12 minutes ago, FDR said:

It was absolutely not widespread. And I'm angry because the crimes and guilt of a small wealthy elite are being projected onto me personally, despite no involvement, simply because I happened to be born white. It's outrageous and it's a notion that is totally racist to the core.

Get over yourself. 

No one expects you personally to feel or admit guilt in relation to the slave trade.

I take the view that to many British Citizens do not understand what impact the slave trade had on those who were forced into slavery, the often barbaric way in which they were treated and how the abolition of slavery did not immediately improve their circumstances.  They don't understand how it feels to be descendants of a slave. 

They also do not understand the impact that the slave trade had on the working class in Britain. However they can probably empathise more with poor white people.

You are right that it was the wealthy who benefited from slavery and the wealthy who were given money by the Government  to compensate them for the loss of their slave labour.  It is these same wealthy people who now have statues erected in their honour in various places around the UK and which protesters have targeted as a symbol of oppression. 

Now I generally support the BLM campaign for equality and equity.  I genuinely believe that minority ethnic groups continue to suffer discrimination and racism to this day in the UK and IOM.  I believe that as a white male I do not encounter the same number of challenges and obstacles as they do (I also accept that as a white male I generally have more implied advantages than white women).

I don't support the political ideologies of BLM such as defunding the police but I think those have come about from a small group of extremists. 

I don't feel guilty about being a white male but I can see the advantages that it brings and I can understand why places like the House of Keys and the Houses of Parliament are view as "male, pale and stale".

I can empathise with those who face discrimination and racism and I want to help them and to make society better.

Teach history warts and all.  Explain how the wealthy exploited slaves and the working class.  Then explain why these wealthy people were honoured with statues that we today are meant to admire without question.

Explain to students how the ancestors of many of our politicians and elites today were slave owners and then see what happens...

[quilp]

After Orwell was shot through the throat in Spain, and suffering from TB for most of his later life, he spent many years writing in total isolation, hardly your typical James Bond. 

[Declan]

12 minutes ago, quilp said:

Orwell did well enough from his grandfather's slave-estate. 

I'm not sure he did, it was his great-great-grandfather's estate, so by the time it trickled down to him it would have been dispersed amongst many cousins by the time he was born in 1903. If it was that much would his Dad needed to work as a Civil Servant in India? But there's no doubt Orwell benefited from Empire and the public school / Oxbridge establishment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21586755

[Declan]

11 minutes ago, quilp said:

After Orwell was shot through the throat in Spain, and suffering from TB for most of his later life, he spent many years writing in total isolation, hardly your typical James Bond. 

He was fighting Fascists in Spain. Something the right forget when they invoke his name.

[FDR]

14 minutes ago, quilp said:

After Orwell was shot through the throat in Spain, and suffering from TB for most of his later life, he spent many years writing in total isolation, hardly your typical James Bond. 

Yeh, before that. Then he wrote 1984 exposing them and they had him murdered.

[FDR]

16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

Get over yourself. 

No one expects you personally to feel or admit guilt in relation to the slave trade.

I take the view that to many British Citizens do not understand what impact the slave trade had on those who were forced into slavery, the often barbaric way in which they were treated and how the abolition of slavery did not immediately improve their circumstances.  They don't understand how it feels to be descendants of a slave. 

They also do not understand the impact that the slave trade had on the working class in Britain. However they can probably empathise more with poor white people.

You are right that it was the wealthy who benefited from slavery and the wealthy who were given money by the Government  to compensate them for the loss of their slave labour.  It is these same wealthy people who now have statues erected in their honour in various places around the UK and which protesters have targeted as a symbol of oppression. 

Now I generally support the BLM campaign for equality and equity.  I genuinely believe that minority ethnic groups continue to suffer discrimination and racism to this day in the UK and IOM.  I believe that as a white male I do not encounter the same number of challenges and obstacles as they do (I also accept that as a white male I generally have more implied advantages than white women).

I don't support the political ideologies of BLM such as defunding the police but I think those have come about from a small group of extremists. 

I don't feel guilty about being a white male but I can see the advantages that it brings and I can understand why places like the House of Keys and the Houses of Parliament are view as "male, pale and stale".

I can empathise with those who face discrimination and racism and I want to help them and to make society better.

Teach history warts and all.  Explain how the wealthy exploited slaves and the working class.  Then explain why these wealthy people were honoured with statues that we today are meant to admire without question.

Explain to students how the ancestors of many of our politicians and elites today were slave owners and then see what happens...

TL;DR.

[Neil Down]

1 hour ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

You clearly don't which is reflected in your poor trolling levels.  No wonder you were banned from iomtoday.

Walter,

could you remind me what my user name was on iomtoday?

[FDR]

17 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

I don't feel guilty about being a white male but ...

"but" nothing. If you don't feel guilty for being a white male then you are a sexist and a racist, according to the SJW mob.

[Declan]

1 minute ago, FDR said:

"but" nothing. If you don't feel guilty for being a white male then you are a sexist and a racist, according to the SJW mob.

That's your deliberate misinterpretation. And phrases like "SJW" are very Orwellian.