Black Lives Matter

[TheTeapot]

The other person/people must have been charged with something. How can only one person be charged with affray? It shouldn't be possible.

[monasqueen]

If he was bitten in the ear by a mad assailant, I hope he had a rabies injection.

You can't be too careful with viruses at the moment.

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

I'll put the full report up again:

It's possible that the assailant(s) were dealt with separately and later at a higher court which would have the power to impose heavier sentences such as long terms of imprisonment, but I seem to remember we couldn't find any evidence of it at the time.  That could well be due to the patchy reporting of court cases by the media.

That still doesn't answer the question, but thanks. 

[Roger Mexico]

17 hours ago, Gladys said:

The workers in the cotton mills may have had no knowledge of how the raw material was produced, and even if they did would they really think a slave's lot was worse than their own? They may have been very grateful for the cotton coming in as the workhouse was an even worse fate.  They may have just scraped together enough money to bury the latest child to have died before reaching the age of three, and so on. 

Of course they knew.  People usually have quite a good idea about how their industry operates.  Even before the American Civil War started, the Lancashire Cotton Famine (cause ironically by an over-production of cotton) was underway and there was much suffering.  So all cotton workers would have been all too painfully aware of how global factors would impact on their own lives.

And they were also aware of the conditions under which slaves suffered and supported the Union side even though it was against their economic interests:

Quote

On 31 December 1862, a meeting of cotton workers at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester, despite their increasing hardship, resolved to support the Union in its fight against slavery. An extract from the letter they wrote in the name of the Working People of Manchester to His Excellency Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States of America says:

... the vast progress which you have made in the short space of twenty months fills us with hope that every stain on your freedom will shortly be removed, and that the erasure of that foul blot on civilisation and Christianity – chattel slavery – during your presidency, will cause the name of Abraham Lincoln to be honoured and revered by posterity. We are certain that such a glorious consummation will cement Great Britain and the United States in close and enduring regards.

On 19 January 1863, Abraham Lincoln sent an address thanking the cotton workers of Lancashire for their support,

... I know and deeply deplore the sufferings which the working people of Manchester and in all Europe are called to endure in this crisis. It has been often and studiously represented that the attempt to overthrow this Government which was built on the foundation of human rights, and to substitute for it one which should rest exclusively on the basis of slavery, was unlikely to obtain the favour of Europe.

Britain was officially neutral during the Civil War, in part because the country was split:

Quote

British public opinion was divided on the American Civil War. The Confederacy tended to have support from the elites: the aristocracy and the gentry, which identified with the landed plantation owners, and Anglican clergy and some professionals who admired tradition, hierarchy and paternalism. The Union was favored by the middle classes, the religious Nonconformists, intellectuals, reformers and most factory workers, who saw slavery and forced labor as a threat to the status of the workingman

But the opposition of the pro-Union groups meant that the establishment could not risk recognising the Confederacy and have the US declare war on the UK when they knew that the country could not be relied on to back them.

This didn't stop more underhand support.  For example the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company sold one of their ships to the South for use as a blockade runner.  Though ironically it ended up being captured by the US Navy and serving them for decades.

 

 

[Declan]

10 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That still doesn't answer the question, but thanks. 

I think we’re not going to get an answer, because either the other guy didn’t come to trial or there weren’t reporters there the day it did. 

[Gladys]

40 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Of course they knew.  People usually have quite a good idea about how their industry operates.  Even before the American Civil War started, the Lancashire Cotton Famine (cause ironically by an over-production of cotton) was underway and there was much suffering.  So all cotton workers would have been all too painfully aware of how global factors would impact on their own lives.

And they were also aware of the conditions under which slaves suffered and supported the Union side even though it was against their economic interests:

Britain was officially neutral during the Civil War, in part because the country was split:

But the opposition of the pro-Union groups meant that the establishment could not risk recognising the Confederacy and have the US declare war on the UK when they knew that the country could not be relied on to back them.

This didn't stop more underhand support.  For example the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company sold one of their ships to the South for use as a blockade runner.  Though ironically it ended up being captured by the US Navy and serving them for decades.

 

 

Yes, I watched another documentary about the cotton trade, the cotton famine and the union support.  But these are events after abolition, at which time everyone's awareness would have been raised.  I am talking about the time before abolition, when ordinary people's awareness would have been very different and so you have to transport yourself to that earlier time to see what your likely circumstances were and how you would react to slavery. 

[gettafa]

I don't know about this particular one, but I have found TV documentaries etc are about as trustworthy with their facts and they way they are portrayed, on about a level lower than wikipedia.

But I must say I love the photography in them and the music is usually rather superb and enjoyable with an edge. I like the presenters to be well-spoken.

 

[Gladys]

39 minutes ago, gettafa said:

I don't know about this particular one, but I have found TV documentaries etc are about as trustworthy with their facts and they way they are portrayed, on about a level lower than wikipedia.

But I must say I love the photography in them and the music is usually rather superb and enjoyable with an edge. I like the presenters to be well-spoken.

 

Yes, you have to bring your own judgement to all things.  But the Storyville series on BBC, is good and tackles some quite tricky issues. 

[hampsterkahn]

There are still some  of us around  who will have encountered some of the “ex-colonials” who settled here in the fifties and sixties.

Many were delightful and quickly settled and made many friends.

It is fair to say some  were not.

When  they reminisced about black people their  attitudes and  terminology    shocked local people  ( Yes, it was offensive to most reasonable folk   “ even in those days” )  and the way they spoke to and treated  local  working people  was not that far removed - at the very least, coarse and ill mannered.

As a youngster It gave me some thought  into how they must have behaved when unchecked in their former corners of the Empire and  what racism was, even though I don’t think I would have used that   specific term.

[gettafa]

Recent arrivals (last 2/3 decades) from South/East Africa are not much different. Mind though, they have often experienced raw situations that most folk can't imagine.

[Augustus]

2 hours ago, Gladys said:

Yes, I watched another documentary about the cotton trade, the cotton famine and the union support.  But these are events after abolition, at which time everyone's awareness would have been raised.  I am talking about the time before abolition, when ordinary people's awareness would have been very different and so you have to transport yourself to that earlier time to see what your likely circumstances were and how you would react to slavery. 

Guess who the (Manchester) Guardian supported in this affair? Just goes to show that noone has exclusive rights to moral righteousness and sanctimony.

[Gladys]

20 minutes ago, Augustus said:

Guess who the (Manchester) Guardian supported in this affair? Just goes to show that noone has exclusive rights to moral righteousness and sanctimony.

Quite, which is why it is pretty pointless expecting a collective guilt.

 

[finlo]

2 hours ago, gettafa said:

Recent arrivals (last 2/3 decades) from South/East Africa are not much different. Mind though, they have often experienced raw situations that most folk can't imagine.

 Once had a south African woman demand that I 'fill ma caa up boy' even though I was also a customer at the petrol station,

[Max Power]

1 hour ago, hampsterkahn said:

There are still some  of us around  who will have encountered some of the “ex-colonials” who settled here in the fifties and sixties.

Many were delightful and quickly settled and made many friends.

It is fair to say some  were not.

When  they reminisced about black people their  attitudes and  terminology    shocked local people  ( Yes, it was offensive to most reasonable folk   “ even in those days” )  and the way they spoke to and treated  local  working people  was not that far removed - at the very least, coarse and ill mannered.

As a youngster It gave me some thought  into how they must have behaved when unchecked in their former corners of the Empire and  what racism was, even though I don’t think I would have used that   specific term.

I remember as an apprentice in the 70s taking a car door apart to find that the cable operated electric window mechanism had snapped and bent. The old colonial guy gave me a right bollocking for not attempting to repair it and wanting to order a new part. He said his little black guy at home would make the parts required and charge him next to nothing. I said if he was willing to pay for a weeks labour, I'm sure I could do the same. It didn't go down very well. 

On the other hand, later on I worked with a charming old fella from New Zealand who had managed gold and diamond mines all over the world. He was very complimentary about the workers in general, he said you just had to put yourself in their shoes and accept and understand their various cultures.

[Gladys]

Well, ain't  that the truth?