Exclusive Rights for Post Office?

[finlo]

18 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

Have the taxpayers got any money?

They're doing their best to make sure not!

[Donald Trumps]

Well there's not a lot of point as jobs as we know them aren't going to be plentiful & will have to be invented

So they might as well stay where they are

The thing is to make earnings more equal & find ways to pay for it all

[Julie Edge (Onchan)]

14 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Julie E.

Brave of you to come back on here after the pasting you got last time!!!

Have you formed a business model for this proposal? Have you been in touch with Online Retail associations? Will they promte our model to their members with the benefits? outlined, small market but sales not to be lost?

Have UK PO agreed to take our 1kg packages to, where? Skelmerdale for us to pick up there?

Most importantly, have you worked out how many retailers would stop sending to the Island under the proposal?

What pasting?  

You havn’t read the report right it was a Tynwald Committee Report not an IOMPO one.

 

[pongo]

57 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

Clearly a case for worker ownership - why won't anyone accept this?

Probably because this idea is clearly for the birds. The more important question will soon be whether we need a Post Office at all. Obviously, as @woolley more or less said, it's kind of offensive that the state would seek to take over private business by legislating to seize control of deliveries. I'm happy to again be on the same page with him. So it's really down to whether or not letters really need to still be a thing at all unless at cost. He is probably right that for now they do. But it's definitely not a business model. And personally I'd be happy if nobody ever sent me letters again. And I certainly don't need my parcels delivered by a trades union.

ETA: I love the idea of Trades Unions in theory - but my experience is that the are bullying, political, lazy, bureacratic and ultimately useless at the point of delivery. I'd much rather deal with competitive insurance companies which in many cases offer a similar service.

32 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

Have the taxpayers got any money?

What we need to remember is that a functioning and viable sovereign country creates and controls its money supply via monetary and fiscal policy. This is basic ABC economics. If a country does not control monetary policy then it is not really a country by any modern measure and should stop pretending. You cannot run a national economy on a household budget model - ie as if money were some finite resource derived from taxation. Modern countries create the money they spend.

(You cannot pay your taxes in bitcoin or gold).

Edited July 23, 2020 by pongo

[Kopek]

The 'pasting' you got a month or so ago! When you tried to discuss your subject but were met with an onslaught about your not revealing info, which turned into a open and honest Govt trist.

However, in response to the above, | cannot believe the the committee reached this conclusion without some input from the PO. Why would they???

 

and further..........

Can you say what discussions have the IoM PO had to be sure that this measure would work as is being promoted.

I suppose, here you will again quote Commercial Confidentiality???...but that will not address the above complaints of the idea, the pretty much opposition to the proposal.?

Edited July 23, 2020 by Kopek

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Julie Edge (Onchan) said:

A full independent review of job roles was done and new grading structure established by Korn  Ferry Hay - grades changed up and down.

But not presumably of business structure.  So the review would have assessed the levels of management pay but not whether there were too many of them or if the structure could simplified or made more efficient.

[woolley]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:44 AM, Donald Trumps said:

Does IOMPO pay the sub-postmaster a living wage, or not?

 

On 7/19/2020 at 1:10 PM, woolley said:

No. It isn't that kind of relationship. Salary is really a misnomer. Simply a payment to provide a service. I note that in the UK in 2018 the salaries of sub postmasters ranged between 10k and 50k. 

 

On 7/19/2020 at 1:12 PM, Donald Trumps said:

What's the range on the Isle of Man?

On page 16, item 35 of the executive summary here: https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/pp/Reports/2019-PP-0121.pdf#search="isle of man post office"  , it is stated that in 2017-18, the combined salaries paid to the 22 sub post offices was £383,000, so average £17,409 each, some would be considerably more, some less, as in the UK.

Also take into account that this is an income stream  diminishing over time as services are withdrawn. For instance, on page 13 item 22 of the same document, it is stated that if the DoI withdraws the contract for processing vehicle and driving licensing, it will result in a loss of revenue of £550,000 p.a. to IOMPO in total and will reduce income to sub postmasters by between 12% and 51%. (The experience in the UK is that this measure was brought in to save £10m, but it has resulted in losses of 20 times as much due to evasion).

Furthermore, there is continued speculation that the Social Security Division will withdraw from benefit payments via the MiCard initiative. If these two government contracts end, it will effectively scupper the network. At the same time the sub post offices have lost the Santander UK banking contract and other banking services are by no means secure.

[woolley]

I don't see that the later report was linked early in the thread unless I missed it on my cursory glance through just now:

https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/pp/Reports/2020-PP-0149.pdf

Apologies if already linked.

[Roger Mexico]

28 minutes ago, woolley said:

On page 16, item 35 of the executive summary here: https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/pp/Reports/2019-PP-0121.pdf#search="isle of man post office"  , it is stated that in 2017-18, the combined salaries paid to the 22 sub post offices was £383,000, so average £17,409 each, some would be considerably more, some less, as in the UK.

Actually it doesn't  It says that that is  the total of "a community payment is made to sub post offices outside Douglas and Ramsey" and that the Post Office doesn't pay any salaries directly (or any other costs such as rates or rents).  All other payments are made relating to the amount of business each individual sub post office carry out fro government departments etc.  The extra money is effectively a subsidy to the post office for the social good they do in rural areas.

The truth is that the problem here is the usual Manx civil service mentality. The dislike of anything that is outside their control and that doesn't fit into the usual structures and empires.  If something is provided by outsiders then either it should be brought in-house (these are the people who nationalised a coffee shop) or the services should be removed, no matter what the inconvenience to the public.

[P.K.]

3 hours ago, Julie Edge (Onchan) said:

A full independent review of job roles was done and new grading structure established by Korn  Ferry Hay - grades changed up and down.

@Julie Edge (Onchan)

Have to say a quick glance at Korn Ferry Hay doesn't exactly fill me with confidence:

"1 Dec 2015 · Acquired by Korn Ferry On December 1, 2015, Korn Ferry announced that it had completed the acquisition of global human resources consultancy Hay Group. This enabled Korn Ferry to diversify its revenue stream and offer solutions across the entire talent lifecycle."   

Are the Korn Ferry Hay collaterals for the IOMPO project in the public domain? As I used to rightsize for a living naturally I'm very interested in their methodology.

I would also like to know how much their consultancy cost the taxpayer and why they were chosen to carry out this exercise? Presumably no local company were deemed suitable?

Thanks.

[woolley]

16 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually it doesn't  It says that that is  the total of "a community payment is made to sub post offices outside Douglas and Ramsey" and that the Post Office doesn't pay any salaries directly (or any other costs such as rates or rents).  All other payments are made relating to the amount of business each individual sub post office carry out fro government departments etc.  The extra money is effectively a subsidy to the post office for the social good they do in rural areas.

I said "it is stated that in 2017-18, the combined salaries paid to the 22 sub post offices was £383,000, so average £17,409 each", and that is what it says in the document. I quote "the TOTAL (my capitals) amount paid out in 2017-18 was £383,000."

I am well aware of the nature of the relationship between the postal authority and the sub postmasters. It is purely a business transaction for services rendered, so of course it does not cover staff wages or other overheads. Payments to sub postmasters are traditionally known as salaries.

[Donald Trumps]

No one surely can object to them being subsidised to provide community services?

What locals clearly oppose is the Economic Policy & Review Committee interfering in the commercial marketplace on their behalf

This is progress for the Isle of Man

But not for Tynwald if they allow it

[Donald Trumps]

12 hours ago, pongo said:

Probably because this idea is clearly for the birds. The more important question will soon be whether we need a Post Office at all. Obviously, as @woolley more or less said, it's kind of offensive that the state would seek to take over private business by legislating to seize control of deliveries. I'm happy to again be on the same page with him. So it's really down to whether or not letters really need to still be a thing at all unless at cost. He is probably right that for now they do. But it's definitely not a business model. And personally I'd be happy if nobody ever sent me letters again. And I certainly don't need my parcels delivered by a trades union.

ETA: I love the idea of Trades Unions in theory - but my experience is that the are bullying, political, lazy, bureacratic and ultimately useless at the point of delivery. I'd much rather deal with competitive insurance companies which in many cases offer a similar service.

What we need to remember is that a functioning and viable sovereign country creates and controls its money supply via monetary and fiscal policy. This is basic ABC economics. If a country does not control monetary policy then it is not really a country by any modern measure and should stop pretending. You cannot run a national economy on a household budget model - ie as if money were some finite resource derived from taxation. Modern countries create the money they spend.

(You cannot pay your taxes in bitcoin or gold).

This is mostly true

Application of modern monetary theory in microstates of today is an immensely interesting topic, largely unaddressed

[woolley]

16 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

This is mostly true

Application of modern monetary theory in microstates of today is an immensely interesting topic, largely unaddressed

Raises too many difficult questions around sovereignty. 

[Mr Newbie]

13 hours ago, woolley said:

I said "it is stated that in 2017-18, the combined salaries paid to the 22 sub post offices was £383,000, so average £17,409 each", and that is what it says in the document. I quote "the TOTAL (my capitals) amount paid out in 2017-18 was £383,000."

Correct the financial model is borderline laughable which is why so many people running rural post offices simply can’t be arsed and are handing them back.