Exclusive Rights for Post Office?

[Banker]

One of the issues with Hermès is that they are not licensed, pay no tax or NI in IOM and don’t pay sick pay etc to driver’s.

IOM post are licensed and pay all NI etc as well as paying a proper wage & conditions.

if the public want companies that don’t contribute to island, offer poor conditions then carry on as is and a subsidy may have to be paid from their taxes,

[Mr Newbie]

3 minutes ago, Banker said:

if the public want companies that don’t contribute to island, offer poor conditions then carry on as is and a subsidy may have to be paid from their taxes,

I fear your banking career won’t go that far if that’s what you genuinely believe. You sound like a communist 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

26 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

In reality it’s not hard to undercut a business which employs postmen on £35k a year with full final salary pensions without skimping on insurance. The reasons why they undercut IOM Post have little to do with cheapo insurance would be my guess and are more about a commercial business not over paying people to do very basic jobs that are not commercially viable when compared to the value of contracts you’re actually tendering for.

Deliveroo would not be viable if they delivered food in Bentleys driven by people earning £40K a year with a final salary pensions. All that’s being compared here is a dead 1970s pre free markets business model against a current 21st century business model. 

Just to be clear - I don't disagree with you about the Post Office model costs of their overpaid staff for what is a very basic job in most cases.

But the answer to that isn't the usual race to the bottom of barely minimum wage earners cutting corners to deliver the usual cheap tat from Amazon.

 

[Mr Newbie]

12 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Just to be clear - I don't disagree with you about the Post Office model costs of their overpaid staff for what is a very basic job in most cases.

But the answer to that isn't the usual race to the bottom of barely minimum wage earners cutting corners to deliver the usual cheap tat from Amazon.

It’s not all tat from Amazon. Our regular Hermès guy is a nice fella probably under 30 just trying to get on. He has to do a relatively shit job because that’s all that’s on offer to him. I’d hate to see him on the dole because our postie who is probably 55 and has 30 years banked in a final salary pension already still wants to be chalking up the cash for retirement despite the economic reality of the contracts IOM Posts is signing. There needs to be give and take on both sides. Not unequal piss taking. The two business models are so diametrically opposed neither makes complete sense. But insurance is a poor fight to pick I think as the only result will be private taxpayers who have been through enough uncertainty due to Covid sacked as contracts have been taken off the businesses they work for to feed IOM Post and online retailers refusing to pay the rates IOM Post expect to get resulting in less online shopping options in the IOM. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mr Newbie

[pongo]

A lot of companies won't deliver here at all if Hermes isn't an option. That would make the IOM a less attractive place for people to live. Making it even harder to do business here. It's hard enough attracting skilled people in as it is.

That would also have a negative impact on the VAT take. Online shopping encourages spend and the IOM gets the money from that.

Edited July 16, 2020 by pongo

[2112]

17 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

It’s not all tat from Amazon. Our regular Hermès guy is a nice fella probably under 30 just trying to get on. He has to do a relatively shit job because that’s all that’s on offer to him. I’d hate to see him on the dole because our postie who is probably 55 and has 30 years banked in a final salary pension already still wants to be chalking up the cash for retirement despite the economic reality of the contracts IOM Posts is signing. There needs to be give and take on both sides. Not unequal piss taking. The two business models are so diametrically opposed neither makes complete sense. But insurance is a poor fight to pick I think as the only result will be private taxpayers who have been through enough uncertainty due to Covid sacked as contracts have been taken off the businesses they work for to feed IOM Post and online retailers refusing to pay the rates IOM Post expect to get resulting in less online shopping options in the IOM. 

To be fair, whilst with some people working for delivery companies which deliver for such companies as Amazon, some people work because they need to work. Some like working and the job and maybe the hours as well. We do not know why people do the jobs they do? Perhaps they don’t want to sign on?

[Banker]

Another issue is that the public also want the sub post offices kept open around the island and these have to be paid for . Therefore it’s not just a question of keeping posties employed on good terms. The post office has to make enough money to cover costs of everything which mayvbe impossible without any changes or possible subventions.

so public has to decide what it’s priorities are.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

2 minutes ago, 2112 said:

To be fair, whilst with some people working for delivery companies which deliver for such companies as Amazon, some people work because they need to work. Some like working and the job and maybe the hours as well. We do not know why people do the jobs they do? Perhaps they don’t want to sign on?

You also get a lot of what taxi drivers do.  Do a few hours that suits.  Taking from people trying to earn a full time living.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

10 minutes ago, pongo said:

A lot of companies won't deliver here at all if Hermes isn't an option. That would make the IOM a less attractive place for people to live. Making it even harder to do business here. It's hard enough attracting skilled people in as it is.

That would also have a negative impact on the VAT take. Online shopping encourages spend and the IOM gets the money from that.

More would be spent locally though.

Also, most companies had no issue delivering here via Royal Mail.  

[pongo]

Just now, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Also, most companies had no issue delivering here via Royal Mail.  

Nope. They have standardised systems set up. Especially with respect to returns. It would be more expensive to do business here and would require bother. So they wouldn't.

You absolutely don't understand logistics if you genuinely believe otherwise are not just trolling again.

1 minute ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

More would be spent locally though.

Nope. Less would be spent. Do you really imagine going back to a world in which people don't shop online?

Also - even the shops here shop online.

[Mr Newbie]

15 minutes ago, 2112 said:

To be fair, whilst with some people working for delivery companies which deliver for such companies as Amazon, some people work because they need to work. Some like working and the job and maybe the hours as well. We do not know why people do the jobs they do? Perhaps they don’t want to sign on?

You misread my point I think. Whatever his reasons he’s a nice fella doing a good job and I wouldn’t want to see him on JSA as the government has taken his job off him to keep people employed on a completely unrealistic basis in IOM Post jobs. The main failure here seems to be IOM Post failing to revise terms and conditions for their own employees so now the back up plan seems to be to make other people unemployed by creating a monopoly at the bottom of the market. It will also reduce choice as Pongo says as the big online retailers won’t deal with IOM Post when Hermès already delivers everything for them across Europe at an agreed cost under a rigid SLA. They’ll just say we no longer deliver to the IOM. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mr Newbie

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

5 minutes ago, pongo said:

Nope. They have standardised systems set up. Especially with respect to returns. It would be more expensive to do business here and would require bother. So they wouldn't.

You absolutely don't understand logistics if you genuinely believe otherwise are not just trolling again.

Nope. Less would be spent. Do you really imagine going back to a world in which people don't shop online?

Also - even the shops here shop online.

Pretty much everyone delivered here before Hermes.   It's a touch sad if you think No Hermes equals no life.

I've bought stuff off ebay this last week.  Delivery by normal post office route.

Edited July 16, 2020 by The Dog's Dangly Bits

[Dave Hedgehog]

12 minutes ago, Banker said:

Another issue is that the public also want the sub post offices kept open around the island and these have to be paid for . Therefore it’s not just a question of keeping posties employed on good terms. The post office has to make enough money to cover costs of everything which mayvbe impossible without any changes or possible subventions.

so public has to decide what it’s priorities are.

Do the public want to keep the sub post offices open or is it just a group of shouty baby boomers who do.

Haven't heard a word said about them since Ballasalla and St Johns closed.

[pongo]

3 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Pretty much everyone delivered here before Hermes.   It's a touch sad if you think No Hermes equals no life.

I've bought stuff off ebay this last week.  Delivery by normal post office route.

I don't spend much time on eBay. But everyone with a wife or girlfriend will be able to tell you that Hermes is how the clothes companies mostly deliver.

[Kopek]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

pay no tax or NI in IOM

As self employed drivers they will or should be paying tax and NI !