Exclusive Rights for Post Office?

[quilp]

Especially young people. 

[woolley]

Lip service costs nothing.

[Mr Newbie]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

That's quite right. Maybe it's even part of the plan.

I’d doubt that as we get a VAT share based on assumed online spend so stopping or reducing online spend would seem to be counter intuitive even for somewhere that could dream this sort of protectionist stuff up. Then you have the matter of contracts. If Hermès has the contract with Amazon currently what are they expecting Hermès to do? Drive up to the Post Office HQ and hand over all their small parcels like naughty school children so the proper post man can deliver them for them? If that’s the case how would the PO even get paid in this scenario as Hermes are the contract holder so they’d have to be able to deliver them for less than Hermès charges Amazon despite having higher operating overheads than Hermès. To get paid it would require the PO to negotiate direct with the likes of Amazon and eBay as a special carrier just for IOM deliveries. I can’t see that going well either. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Mr Newbie

[Mr Newbie]

22 minutes ago, woolley said:

Lip service costs nothing.

Sometimes it can be quite expensive 

[woolley]

15 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

I’d doubt that as we get a VAT share based on assumed online spend so stopping or reducing online spend would seem to be counter intuitive even for somewhere that could dream this sort of protectionist stuff up. Then you have the matter of contracts. If Hermès has the contract with Amazon currently what are they expecting Hermès to do? Drive up to the Post Office HQ and hand over all their small parcels like naughty school children so the proper post man can deliver them for them? If that’s the case how would the PO even get paid in this scenario as Hermes are the contract holder so they’d have to be able to deliver them for less than Hermès charges Amazon despite having higher operating overheads than Hermès. To get paid it would require the PO to negotiate direct with the likes of Amazon and eBay as a special carrier just for IOM deliveries. I can’t see that going well either. 

Me neither. My post was somewhat tongue in cheek, as many of my posts are. The trick is being able to tell which ones. I appreciate that we receive a VAT consideration for online sales under the TBMM regime, but to take it to its logical conclusion, if those sales were bricks and mortar sales on the Island then the VAT take would be greater because the prices would be higher. And it's still tongue in cheek.

[Mr Newbie]

33 minutes ago, woolley said:

Me neither. My post was somewhat tongue in cheek, as many of my posts are. The trick is being able to tell which ones. I appreciate that we receive a VAT consideration for online sales under the TBMM regime, but to take it to its logical conclusion, if those sales were bricks and mortar sales on the Island then the VAT take would be greater because the prices would be higher. And it's still tongue in cheek.

It’s unlikely Stand Street is ever going to replace Amazon but I get your point and your humour. Sadly all I’m seeing here is the same tactics used by the bus company - let’s do more work almost for free so we can keep employing people on better terms than the people who used to perform the contracts we’ve stolen. It’s our very own communist manifesto. 

[Kopek]

If the PO idea came off, they could probably employ some of the hermes drivers? If they could teach them where to safely leave the  package!!!

[pongo]

Let's be absolutely clear. It's not just Amazon. It's almost every clothing retailer, for example. And everyone selling lightweight packages which in many cases will be returned. The environmental argument is nonsense too - certainly with respect to delivery. They don't just drive to our house. They deliver to all our neighbours too. Obviously.

Online retail is hugely important to the economy. Most especially now. Imagine having to waste time going back to a world in which we can only use shops on the IOM. Because some stupid govt directive had caused online retailers to stop delivering here. And they would. They aren't going to set up special alternative ways of delivering stuff here and picking up returns.

The old fashioned unionised Post Office model no longer makes sense. It was built as a letter service - with sorting and routing designed to allow millions of short text messages to be delivered point to point until they arrived at their destination anywhere in Britain (and later the whole world). It involved thousands of workers at hubs in every location.

Today we have email and Whatsapp. No need for letters. Most are completely unnecessary. They should be charged at cost. The true price of a letter would be much higher. It should be.

[Donald Trumps]

Could well be that ownership of IOMPO is actually hampering IOM transformation to a true digital economy

Tynwald should let it's workers run it as a co-op with an employee buy-out, & get IOMG moving ahead with 21st century infrastructure

Same with Manx Radio - sell it to it's management team & spend the money on public service digital media

Edited July 18, 2020 by Donald Trumps

[Kopek]

Donald, I doubt the PO workers would want to buy the business, they know better that anyone the problems, logistical and financial, with the current model.

The enviromental case does have some merit, there are how many delivery companies, 3-4-5? Who could each be making the journey to Outer Bride, whereas the PO would co-ordinate it to one journey, perhaps 5 times a week but that's the throw of the dice?

I think that the likes of Hermes go to each seller to pick up their goods for delivery? The IOM PO would have to arrange the same service but probably the English PO do that and could pass the goods on the IOM at the usual co-ordinated places?

Of course, if hermes have their goods shipped to the IOM via the PO, not any gain.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Kopek

[Donald Trumps]

My troosers are right here

[woolley]

40 minutes ago, pongo said:

Let's be absolutely clear. It's not just Amazon. It's almost every clothing retailer, for example. And everyone selling lightweight packages which in many cases will be returned. The environmental argument is nonsense too - certainly with respect to delivery. They don't just drive to our house. They deliver to all our neighbours too. Obviously.

Online retail is hugely important to the economy. Most especially now. Imagine having to waste time going back to a world in which we can only use shops on the IOM. Because some stupid govt directive had caused online retailers to stop delivering here. And they would. They aren't going to set up special alternative ways of delivering stuff here and picking up returns.

The old fashioned unionised Post Office model no longer makes sense. It was built as a letter service - with sorting and routing designed to allow millions of short text messages to be delivered point to point until they arrived at their destination anywhere in Britain (and later the whole world). It involved thousands of workers at hubs in every location.

Today we have email and Whatsapp. No need for letters. Most are completely unnecessary. They should be charged at cost. The true price of a letter would be much higher. It should be.

I'm with you nearly 100%, pongo, and I can't often say that. We certainly should not be subsidising the post office in this way. It isn't just the old fashioned unionised model that is culpable here. It's the outrageous top heavy management clinging to the wreckage that makes it hopelessly unviable. The idea of defending this position by barring others from the market is quite offensive.

My only issue of dissension is your assertion that there is no need for letters. It's the same argument as the need for cash. You and I could get by without it as presumably neither of us are black marketeers, and we use digital means to pay and collect. If we are an inclusive society though, there is a huge cohort within the population that is not internet savvy and never will be. They will eventually die, but it will take a long time. Similarly, if you want to charge the true cost of delivering a letter from Dalby to Wick, you will simply exclude this demographic from the activity. I don't know what the answer is, and the problem will only get worse. However, it certainly isn't to create a monopoly on small packages for the post office at the expense of existing operators.

Edited July 18, 2020 by woolley

[Kopek]

....or 'White Marketeers' Woolley, how soon you forget.

7 minutes ago, woolley said:

neither of us are black marketeers

[Kopek]

I think it would be worth a business modelling to see if this idea is viable and would solve the POs profit / loss?

It is a semi Govt service, any loss is a loss to the taxpayer, so check it out rather than dismiss without discussion?

[Donald Trumps]

There's probably informed thinking in the field that never reaches tynwald committees