Manx Care

[Boo Gay'n]

50 minutes ago, Apple said:

Angela Murray is / was the Chief Operating Officer.

Departure immediate according to the staff bulletin.

It is hard to know what to infer from this, but it is unlikely to be Ms Cope's iron hand.  I understand that Angel Murray has been quite poorly over the last few years and she is in her mid-late sixties.  Whatever the real reason, as happened a few years ago, the Boy Vampire will no doubt be able to spin it to his Tynwald chums that it was his iron hand!

[Apple]

Looking to the future I wonder now if Dr Tinwell's Employment Tribunal will now go ahead as IIIRC Angela was named in that case. 

It will probably get 'settled' now probably. I don't think they would want the real facts about what was happening to her in Mental Health Services at that time to be made public. 

22 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

but it is unlikely to be Ms Cope's iron hand.

....Apparently it was. TC is very much in charge now. That's why DA brought her in. 

I am told that what goes around, comes around.

[Roger Mexico]

22 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Poor old mohammed from ramsey will be a bit upset his feedback will no longer be sought. Sad days

20 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Just as he felt his voice was being heard. There'll be racism behind this move mark my words

One of the more bizarre facts about the cut-and-paste job that was done on the Wigan document was that they actually changed the name to Mohammed.  Presumably to add plausibility.

[Apple]

Apparently that was not about AM.

Are you sure that wasn't the reason that Crouch and his deputy were "let go?" 

Does anyone leave the DHSC on good terms or in a good light? There seems to be always something hanging over people. These are senior managers for goodness sake. on very good money.

What is it about the politics that causes so much friction? Why can't they all just work for the benefit for patients and public.?

Maybe Manx Care will be different, with no political interference.🤨

[John Wright]

It was inevitable that there’d be departures in the run up to, and in the months after, Manx Care becoming operational.

Ms Cope will want to establish her own team with philosophies and working practices which coincide.

As for ex or retired employees not being available to give evidence, first they’ll have already given signed witness statements and can be subpoenaed by either party.

Of course you have to weigh up and balance the damage of not calling her as a witness against the damage an aggrieved witness ( if she’s aggrieved ) might cause.

[Andy Onchan]

Am I correct in saying that neither the new DHSC management/policy structure (or the old one for that matter) and the new Manx Care board have lay or patient representation on them?

I find it quite incredible that the main stakeholder in all of this is effectively sidelined and doesn't get a look-in or a say in any of this road crash waiting to happen.

[Boo Gay'n]

10 minutes ago, Apple said:

Apparently that was not about AM.

Are you sure that wasn't the reason that Crouch and his deputy were "let go?" 

Does anyone leave the DHSC on good terms or in a good light? There seems to be always something hanging over people. These are senior managers for goodness sake. on very good money.

What is it about the politics that causes so much friction? Why can't they all just work for the benefit for patients and public.?

Maybe Manx Care will be different, with no political interference.🤨

Oh you naive pup.

Think about how most MF members view our elected and unelected politicians.  The friction between them and highly educated professionals is ever-present - particularly in DHSC - because they are morons but think that their seat in Tynwald makes them omniscient!  Whenever there is friction ("speak truth unto power"), the politicians are very good at rubbishing the skills, character and reputation of the official.  It is hardly surprising that there is so much bowing and scraping - which then makes the politicians feel even more important.  Catch 22.  Perhaps Murray, Couch etc. disagreed with the direction of travel?

Manx Care will fail because the politicians will not be able to stop themselves interfering.

[Boo Gay'n]

10 minutes ago, John Wright said:

It was inevitable that there’d be departures in the run up to, and in the months after, Manx Care becoming operational.

Ms Cope will want to establish her own team with philosophies and working practices which coincide.

As for ex or retired employees not being available to give evidence, first they’ll have already given signed witness statements and can be subpoenaed by either party.

Of course you have to weigh up and balance the damage of not calling her as a witness against the damage an aggrieved witness ( if she’s aggrieved ) might cause.

There will be an open Pandora's box if the full tribunal goes ahead from what I have heard.  The initial crossing of swords in the Tinwell case is largely procedural from what I can see.  Do you remember the Inglis debacle?  So you are no doubt right, John - if AM has been ousted rather than strolled out, calling her to the tribunal would be dangerous for either side.

[Roger Mexico]

21 minutes ago, Apple said:

Apparently that was not about AM.

Are you sure that wasn't the reason that Crouch and his deputy were "let go?" 

Indeed it was during Couch and Morris's appearance before the Public Accounts Committee that all this came out[1] and Morris was the nominal 'author' of the plagiarised document.  But it was symptomatic of a 'photocopy culture' in the Manx Civil Service where they expect to be paid not much less than their English counterparts for mindlessly just copying what they do and write.

It's probably wise not to take everything that Stinky says entirely seriously, though you might argue that under the new Manx Care regime, being in Wigan is actually the only chance will get of having your concerns dealt with.

Murray was always expected to go when the new system came in, as John says I think she was past retirement anyway and only hung on to run things in the post-Couch mess.  The surprise is the suddenness of it and the fact it seems to be immediate.  You'd have thought they could have waited till April and done everything politely.

 

[1]  We talk about the ineffectiveness of Tynwald in dealing with the Civil Service, but the PAC has been responsible for getting rid of the CEOs of DHSC and DESC in the last couple of years.  Of course that may just mean that CEOs (a fairly recent position anyway) have become disposable figureheads while the actual running of the Departments is done by others.

 

[John Wright]

17 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

There will be an open Pandora's box if the full tribunal goes ahead from what I have heard.  The initial crossing of swords in the Tinwell case is largely procedural from what I can see.  Do you remember the Inglis debacle?  So you are no doubt right, John - if AM has been ousted rather than strolled out, calling her to the tribunal would be dangerous for either side.

What was the outcome for Ms Inglis. Not sure of the parallels.

[Apple]

24 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Am I correct in saying that neither the new DHSC management/policy structure (or the old one for that matter) and the new Manx Care board have lay or patient representation on them?

Not in the way that it should in my opinion. However, there are new moves afoot for Manx Care which is aimed to put patients and public at the heart of our health and social care services. Long overdue. 

 

26 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

I find it quite incredible that the main stakeholder in all of this is effectively sidelined and doesn't get a look-in or a say in any of this road crash waiting to happen.

So do I. I think several others do but have been unwilling to make comment. 

[Apple]

27 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

Oh you naive pup.

Oh, I don't think so. 😄

[Apple]

6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Indeed it was during Couch and Morris's appearance before the Public Accounts Committee that all this came out[1] and Morris was the nominal 'author' of the plagiarised document. 

I watched that. The news had come out beforehand and that was just going through the motions. Decisions had been made by then.

8 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

though you might argue that under the new Manx Care regime, being in Wigan is actually the only chance will get of having your concerns dealt with.

🙃.  I have had my faith restored somewhat lately. I am hopeful.

9 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Murray was always expected to go when the new system came in, as John says I think she was past retirement anyway and only hung on to run things in the post-Couch mess.  The surprise is the suddenness of it and the fact it seems to be immediate.  You'd have thought they could have waited till April and done everything politely.

Read the staff bulletin, and then read it again. 

 

10 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

[1]  We talk about the ineffectiveness of Tynwald in dealing with the Civil Service, but the PAC has been responsible for getting rid of the CEOs of DHSC and DESC in the last couple of years.  Of course that may just mean that CEOs (a fairly recent position anyway) have become disposable figureheads while the actual running of the Departments is done by others.

 

Not so sure about that. I think Mr Speaker has had the cojones to confront, challenge and pressure others to do the jobs they are supposed to do. And if found wanting has probably lobbied behind the scenes to get changes done. Quietly.

[Boo Gay'n]

29 minutes ago, John Wright said:

What was the outcome for Ms Inglis. Not sure of the parallels.

Given the long history of problems that Ms Inglis had created and the hospital investigations undertaken at considerable public expense even before this long hearing at the Tribunal, it was evident that the Claimant was blind to her imperfections and seemingly too often in denial concerning problems that she had created, some of them deliberately. Too often, her evidence was unreliable and, in some instances, unfortunately, it was false and unbelievable.

Judgement

[Boo Gay'n]

19 minutes ago, Apple said:

I watched that. The news had come out beforehand and that was just going through the motions. Decisions had been made by then.

🙃.  I have had my faith restored somewhat lately. I am hopeful.

Read the staff bulletin, and then read it again. 

 

Not so sure about that. I think Mr Speaker has had the cojones to confront, challenge and pressure others to do the jobs they are supposed to do. And if found wanting has probably lobbied behind the scenes to get changes done. Quietly.

The staff bulletin isn't public, Juan, and there has been no press release