Manx Care

[Apple]

The written question in Tynwald did not result in providing the waiting list for each individual Consultant / Speciality. This used to happen each month and was circulated to all MHKs. It seems to have fallen by the wayside. It needs to be resumed and extended for all services, including mental health referrals.

One approach now seems to be to have referred members of the public undergo assessment / diagnosis procedures undertaken by other members of the team (eg physio) before reference to the Consultant for final opinion to operate (that is what I am experiencing at the moment). That process should be extended where and if possible.

No doubt extra m only for waiting lists initiatives will be requested and hopefully balanced with the costs but more importantly benefits of and for sending patients off island for procedures. 

Mrs Cope suggest they are developing more policies to deal with this very serious issue which is in itself disappointing. Something a little more tangible and concrete may be more reassuring to those people who would agree with her interpretation of what has now become an unacceptable situation. 

[Newbie]

47 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

Some unhappy people:

Manx Care to ask for money to tackle 'concerning' waiting lists - Manx Radio

 

 

The MR report says that maximum waits are up to 5 years in some specialties. Before lockdown last year, the maximum waits were a little over 2 years in the worst specialties. It is difficult to see how waiting lists can rise by nearly 3 years in a little over 12 months. Even assuming no routine work at all had taken place since then (although it was restarted briefly last year), the wait should only have gone up by a little over 12 months. Something doesn't add up.

[Apple]

8 hours ago, Newbie said:

Something doesn't add up.

The actual data supplied was always a bit 'iffy' depending on who you spoke to. However, given the amount of money spent on the new technological systems in the last 10 years it is difficult to see what the data should have not been easily verifiable by now. (Mrs Cope said the data needed validation which often involves staff chasing up people to see if they still need or want their procedure or have died or left the island in the meantime. Expensive and clumsy. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Apple

[Albert Tatlock]

15 minutes ago, Newbie said:

 

The MR report says that maximum waits are up to 5 years in some specialties. Before lockdown last year, the maximum waits were a little over 2 years in the worst specialties. It is difficult to see how waiting lists can rise by nearly 3 years in a little over 12 months. Even assuming no routine work at all had taken place since then (although it was restarted briefly last year), the wait should only have gone up by a little over 12 months. Something doesn't add up.

Heart/Gastro waits of 5 years? - 50% of them could likely be dead before 5 years.

[Major Rushen]

Reading through the last Tynwald requests for written answers you can see that the Manx Civil Service must spend a disproportionate amount of man hours preparing these answers for MHKs instead of working the government machine. ‘Drop everything we have a Tynwald question to answer’.

[GD4ELI]

7 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Heart/Gastro waits of 5 years? - 50% of them could likely be dead before 5 years.

It really is appalling. 

https://www.facebook.com/ManxRadio/posts/4562998400394718

Health care is a big issue when deciding where to relocate.

[wrighty]

I've never thought that waiting times were a good indicator, particularly if quoting the longest waiter.  Much better to say how many are waiting, and give an indication of throughput.  It's what I do if asked by a particular patient how long they might have to wait for a procedure - I'll say 'there are x in front of you on the list, and I average about y a year of this operation, so it'll probably be..."

Total numbers waiting is not a bad indicator in itself, but the question then has to be whether the referrals in to that service are appropriate, and if so, are there enough people in post to cope with that number and are they working to a reasonable capacity.  If that information is known, then the issue can be managed appropriately by setting referral criteria, clinic templates, staffing levels and performance etc.  

[Banker]

Family member tried to book a blood test today after referral, next available appointments 28/05 . Apparently busy as GPs won’t take blood anymore and just send everyone up to hospital.

GPs don’t seem to want to do anything at present and blame Covid restrictions 

[GD4ELI]

37 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I've never thought that waiting times were a good indicator, particularly if quoting the longest waiter.  Much better to say how many are waiting, and give an indication of throughput.  It's what I do if asked by a particular patient how long they might have to wait for a procedure - I'll say 'there are x in front of you on the list, and I average about y a year of this operation, so it'll probably be..."

Total numbers waiting is not a bad indicator in itself, but the question then has to be whether the referrals in to that service are appropriate, and if so, are there enough people in post to cope with that number and are they working to a reasonable capacity.  If that information is known, then the issue can be managed appropriately by setting referral criteria, clinic templates, staffing levels and performance etc.  

It's worth following the Facebook link, some shocking tales.

Out of interest, how long to get a new hip once the consultant says you need it? For that matter, how long to get a consultant's appointment? Pre-COVID people were getting the new hip within the NHS target of (I think) 4 months.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Newbie said:

 It is difficult to see how waiting lists can rise by nearly 3 years in a little over 12 months. Even assuming no routine work at all had taken place since then (although it was restarted briefly last year), the wait should only have gone up by a little over 12 months. Something doesn't add up.

Actually it can happen for two reasons. It could be decreased capacity - they can do fewer procedures in a period from now on because of Covid restrictions, UK specialists less able to come over and treat, difficulty obtaining off-Island appointments and so on. 

Or it could be increased demand - more people wanting treatment on Island.  This isn't necessarily because more are ill, but because people who may have had private treatment elsewhere no longer have that option.  As usual it's probably a bit of both.

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually it can happen for two reasons. It could be decreased capacity - they can do fewer procedures in a period from now on because of Covid restrictions, UK specialists less able to come over and treat, difficulty obtaining off-Island appointments and so on. 

Or it could be increased demand - more people wanting treatment on Island.  This isn't necessarily because more are ill, but because people who may have had private treatment elsewhere no longer have that option.  As usual it's probably a bit of both.

Actually it’s more likely a third option.

The appointments system probably has an inbuilt allowance for urgent and emergency appointments. It’ll probably depend on speciality.

There was a waiting list for appointments before Covid. In the last 15 months some clinics, especially with visiting consultants haven’t taken place at all.

So, there’s the original people on the list, the ones not seen in last 15 months, and then you take into account the spaces estimated for urgent and emergencies.

So 12 months of no appointments, or fewer than usual, pushes waiting times out by more than 12 months.

[Uhtred]

2 hours ago, Boo Gay'n said:

It didn't take long, did it?  Five weeks in and out comes the begging bowl.

No bloody wonder the Chairman said they would have failed if they overspent…he knew they were about to fire in a request for millions! And if they’ve generated massive waiting lists because they’ve not be able to do stuff, what happened to the budget allocated for the stuff that wasn’t done?!

[Apple]

The issue of inappropriate referrals from GP's then needs improving. This has been a thorny issue for many years. Whatever happened to the joint GP training sessions, the treatment pathways and guidelines etc - surely they could have been utilised to "help" GPs refer their patients more effectively.

OR are GPs just not up to the role that is now required of them to deal with more patients / problems on their own doorstep rather than just send up to hospital.

[Rhumsaa]

44 minutes ago, Uhtred said:

what happened to the budget allocated for the stuff that wasn’t done?!

is it because there are so many static costs? people getting paid whether they're working or not?

and whilst there may be some savings in running costs I suspect there are a number of items that have a very short shelf life that will need replacing whether used or not?

not to mention the PPE costs....

[Gladys]

37 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

is it because there are so many static costs? people getting paid whether they're working or not?

and whilst there may be some savings in running costs I suspect there are a number of items that have a very short shelf life that will need replacing whether used or not?

not to mention the PPE costs....

And vax hubs.