Manncoin

[Phillip Dearden]

5 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I think this is correct.  We don't have capital gains tax here, but if those capital gains are being taken regularly as an income then it could be.  I was told by a financial advisor that I was allowed to take some money out of an investment plan without being taxed on it, as long as it was no more than twice in a year (or something like that - don't quote me on the exact number).  I pay income tax on share dividends, not on capital gains.

We are getting too hung up on "regular" as a determinant of income. The real marker of a trading transaction is "intent" ie was the asset acquired with the intent of making a profit. Frequency is often used as an indicator of trading as traders often sell many of their product but you could have both one-off trades and repeated capital gains.

In the Isle of Man, a difficulty the tax office have with share and house sales is that it is difficult to prove what intention the vendor had when acquiring an asset. I suspect this difficulty will arise with virtual currencies as well. 

I suspect AT is on the right track when he suggests gains need to be realised before they will be taxed but this is not an absolute. Income profits are taxed as and when they arise and this could be via an accounting entry ie record a profit as values rise and it might be taxable. "Realisation" is just the conversion of one asset into another, it is not a magic event that triggers tax.

Wrighty steps into a dangerous area with investment plans. The taxation of insurance based investment products has been treated in many different ways over the years, on the Island. The UK has a specific tax regime for these but in the IOM we are stuck with Income: taxable and Capital Gains:not taxable. I believe that with Insurance based products the profits are all capital, there are no dividends or interest but I have to say the tax authorities and some advisors did not agree with me. Whatever the tax position, I cannot see how withdrawals could ever be taxable. That is like taking cash out of your bank account and cannot be a measure of taxable profit, again, many disagree with me. 

[mad_manx]

9 hours ago, wrighty said:

It counts as a capital gain, so in the UK tax would be due, but not on the IOM.  Crypto doesn't pay dividends or equivalent, so my understanding is that over here no tax is due.

Actually many do...its possible to stake many of them for double digit and even triple digit returns .

Obviously the underlying risk is if the token that you stake does a massive dump

However it's fairly easy to borrow these high risk tokens using less  risky  coins like btc / eth etc and stake them. 

So you don't have any exposure to the coin you stake.

 

The dividends/ earn that you get can be coverted to a stablecoin like usdt/ usdc / busd and that protects you from a bear market.  Or if you want fiat money can convert these into gbp and transfer it to your bank account.

 

Since banks are not too keen on transfers from crypto exchanges these days an even better move is to use it for spending using  a crypto card. Some of these give upto 8% cashback in crypto .

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by mad_manx

[trmpton]

1 minute ago, mad_manx said:

Actually many do...its possible to stake many of them for double digit and even triple digit returns .

Obviously the underlying risk is if the token that you stake does a massive dump

However it's fairly easy to borrow these high risk tokens using more stable coins like btc / eth etc and stake them. 

So you don't have any exposure to the coin you stake.

 

The dividends/ earn that you get can be coverted to a stablecoin like usdt/ usdc / busd and that protects you from a bear market.  Or if you want fiat money can convert these into gbp and transfer it to your bank account.

 

Since banks are not too keen on transfers from crypto exchanges these days an even better move is to use it for spending using  a crypto card. Some of these give upto 8% cashback in crypto .

 

As above.  It is a learning curve but a very lucrative one.

I spent time doing research and learning whilst in lockdown and since then am doing 2 hours a day between 6am and 8am before "work"

Those first two hours are significantly more lucrative than working my arse off for the other 50 hours a week.  If I were to invest more money then the gains would be much greater.

I have developed a system and am.sticking to it for now although I would like to get to a point where I have some money in there for the long term.

[Mr Roboto]

20 hours ago, trmpton said:

Buying and selling doge is easy, I use binance.

CUMROCKET was a leap into the unknown for me as I couldn't find it on the usual exchanges.  Glad I made the effort though

 

Not sure I could take a currency called cumrocket seriously as an investment! But if you got a nice new bike out of it fair enough. I probably need to have a go at this sort of thing. 

[trmpton]

2 minutes ago, Mr Roboto said:

Not sure I could take a currency called cumrocket seriously as an investment! But if you got a nice new bike out of it fair enough. I probably need to have a go at this sort of thing. 

I don't think its a long term thing - probably not for the hardened endurance investor.

More a shot in the dark that came good !

[wrighty]

2 minutes ago, Mr Roboto said:

Not sure I could take a currency called cumrocket seriously as an investment! But if you got a nice new bike out of it fair enough. I probably need to have a go at this sort of thing. 

I’m convinced that the terms ‘bubble’, ‘bandwagon’ and ‘magic beans’ apply to the whole crypto phenomenon.  I’m not sold on the whole ‘blockchain is the next big thing’ concept.

Having said that, having dabbled for a bit I am planning a short ride on the bandwagon, with the aim of selling the sackload of magic beans I plan to buy before the bubble bursts. 

[pongo]

1 minute ago, wrighty said:

Having said that, having dabbled for a bit I am planning a short ride on the bandwagon, with the aim of selling the sackload of magic beans I plan to buy before the bubble bursts. 

You're maybe a bit late to the current party.

Might be best to wait until sometime before the next halving. Given that all crypto orbits BTC.

[Apple]

6 minutes ago, trmpton said:

More a shot in the dark that came good !

Interesting information from everyone, but it still sounds like gambling to me. Not for the faint hearted I reckon, but crack on. If you can afford to lose it, then use it. 😀

Good luck.

[Mr Roboto]

5 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I’m convinced that the terms ‘bubble’, ‘bandwagon’ and ‘magic beans’ apply to the whole crypto phenomenon.  I’m not sold on the whole ‘blockchain is the next big thing’ concept.

As long as you get out in the first or second wave while all the others are pumping in liquidity in a rising market praying to get rich then you’re generally ok in any investment. It’s the ones that hang on after all logic has left on the basis that “One day we’ll all be millionaires Rodney” that supply the money that allows everyone else to exit at good value before the shit hits the fan. 

[trmpton]

8 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I’m convinced that the terms ‘bubble’, ‘bandwagon’ and ‘magic beans’ apply to the whole crypto phenomenon.  I’m not sold on the whole ‘blockchain is the next big thing’ concept.

Having said that, having dabbled for a bit I am planning a short ride on the bandwagon, with the aim of selling the sackload of magic beans I plan to buy before the bubble bursts. 

People said that 5 years ago about bitcoin.

If those same people had put a few quid on and sat on it, they would be VERY happy right now.

[trmpton]

5 years ago would have seen you buy in at roughly 500 dollars a coin.

Today - roughly 60,000 dollars a coin.

[pongo]

6 minutes ago, trmpton said:

People said that 5 years ago about bitcoin.

If those same people had put a few quid on and sat on it, they would be VERY happy right now.

Yep. But sell high and buy low makes more sense in a market which is apparently so cyclical. And use the profits for something else meanwhile.

Many bought close to $20k in 2017. The price dipped close to $6k in March 2020. Undermining the idea of it being a hedge against uncertainty.

Edited May 4, 2021 by pongo

[wrighty]

2 minutes ago, trmpton said:

5 years ago would have seen you buy in at roughly 500 dollars a coin.

Today - roughly 60,000 dollars a coin.

A similar growth over the next five years would see crypto being worth about 15% of all the investable money in the world. That ain’t going to happen. 
 

I think BTC will be around long term, but will stabilise.  Don’t know when or at what value - nobody does.  Of all the new ones that pop up by the hour, most will turn to nothing, or are scams to extract real money from people who want to get rich quick. 

[Albert Tatlock]

BTC will get shut down soon IMO...dodgy cash...same energy bill as all of Argentina? Easy climate win.

Rejected...gone.

Panic as it pours into other coins.

[pongo]

8 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

BTC will get shut down soon IMO

Every institution which gets involved makes that less likely.

Recent VISA announcements back this up. They are falling over themselves to get into crypto now.

Meanwhile high street banks are cracking down on customers even buying and selling crypto + blocking exchanges etc. Panic mode.

Edited May 5, 2021 by pongo