Cannabis - Time for a re-think?

[Boo Gay'n]

11 minutes ago, finlo said:

Can artificial light replicate daylight? No wonder he's wary.

For plants of various kinds, we can now produce artificial light which is better than daylight (i.e. to stimulate growth or the production of natural chemicals).  Greenhouses can be shaded, of course - it's more a question of whether we change-loving Manxies can cope with them being here.

[quilp]

18 minutes ago, finlo said:

Can artificial light replicate daylight? No wonder he's wary.

As an aside, some of the strongest strains are force-grown under artificial light. The Island has a vast amount of warehouse space to accommodate production. It is also a very secure way to produce quality weed without the use of chemical fertilisers and insecticides needed for outdoor growing. No rabbits either, rabbits, like humans, have an insatiable appetite for weed.

Edited December 3, 2020 by quilp
Had to catch the rabbit...

[Roger Mexico]

14 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

The sad thing is - and I know that this for a fact - we have the law to do this, but the Boy Vampire has been sitting on the fence for over two years.  Why?

Ashford is hardly someone who will do anything controversial off his own initiative.   I suspect this may be the usual DHSC inertia where they refuse to do anything other than copy what the English did a few years before.  Anything else is too much like hard work.  You saw this even over something like abortion - any change was resisted even with public support.

[Roger Mexico]

2 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

 Greenhouses can be shaded, of course - it's more a question of whether we change-loving Manxies can cope with them being here.

I suspect the lack of greenhouses in the Manx landscape has less to do with aesthetic conservatism (have you seen some of the stuff that gets put up?) than with the strength and ever changing direction of the wind.

[wrighty]

@quilp you seem to be very well informed, so educate me on this. If the chemical structure of THC and CBD is known, and can presumably be synthesised and put into a pill or an aerosol, why aren’t pharmaceutical companies doing this, and why are we still talking about growing and smoking ‘weed’?

Edited December 3, 2020 by wrighty
Typo

[Viddy well]

24 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

My contribution, for what it is worth, is this.  Medicinal grade cannabis is in short supply globally and commands a high price.  We live on an island (you may have noticed) so security is relatively easy to provide.  I am sure that we could also manage "good manufacturing practices".  Manx farming - other than the gentleman bull farmers like Mr Toad - is not in a good place.  So...why not allow the farming of the weed for medicinal purposes?  I honestly believe that it could be the next e-gaming for our economy.  We would need to accept the erection of some greenhouses here and there (shock, horror) but little else of any note.  Why hesitate?

The sad thing is - and I know that this for a fact - we have the law to do this, but the Boy Vampire has been sitting on the fence for over two years.  Why?

Nailed it (apart from the last part).

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, wrighty said:

@quilp you seem to be very well informed, so educate me on this. If the chemical structure of THC and CBD is known, and can presumably by synthesised and put into a pill or an aerosol, why aren’t pharmaceutical companies doing this, and why are we still talking about growing and smoking ‘weed’?

Probably for the same reason that while there are synthetic opiates, morphine and codiene are still manufactured from poppies.

I am very cynical about the medical thing, I think it's probably overplayed. However, conspiracy hat on, one reason the pharmaceutical companies have taken their time with it is because it doesn't really need anything doing to it, a good bud vaped is all the drug you need, so they didn't see the profit in a pill, cos anyone can grow it.

[wrighty]

11 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Probably for the same reason that while there are synthetic opiates, morphine and codiene are still manufactured from poppies.

I am very cynical about the medical thing, I think it's probably overplayed. However, conspiracy hat on, one reason the pharmaceutical companies have taken their time with it is because it doesn't really need anything doing to it, a good bud vaped is all the drug you need, so they didn't see the profit in a pill, cos anyone can grow it.

OK, perhaps I should have said “extract, purify and quantify THC and CBD...” rather than synthesise it. As with morphine. If cannabis products were so useful they’d do this wouldn’t they? Nobody is asking to be allowed to grow their own poppies in greenhouses to extract and smoke opium. I understand that they might if morphine were unavailable on prescription. 

[quilp]

12 minutes ago, wrighty said:

@quilp you seem to be very well informed, so educate me on this. If the chemical structure of THC and CBD is known, and can presumably by synthesised and put into a pill or an aerosol, why aren’t pharmaceutical companies doing this, and why are we still talking about growing and smoking ‘weed’?

Good question. Probably because pharmaceutical companies see their existing products as more profitable and baulk at the costs of research, although there's plenty of existing research available. And they're still bound by laws in the countries where production takes place. Licensing might also be an inhibitor. You should also be aware that legal, aerosolised versions of THC/CBD compounds exist in Sativex, for instance. There is existing evidence from the US and Canada where a cannabis inhaler was tested on COPD patients as a bronchodilator and the results where almost exactly as efficacious as ipratropium bromide. Pure THC in tablet form has been around for a decade or so but are probably unsuitable for medical use. No one has to actually smoke cannabis anymore, I was able to purchase very agreeable vape versions in Amsterdam 6 years ago, in various strengths and flavours.

I can attest to the analgesic effects of cannabis, and also as a palliative for stress and anxiety. I can compare this against GP prescribed Tramadol, cocodamol and good old morphia. Or against stress inhibitors such as Trazodone (which induced anaphylaxis and almost killed me) or Citalopram, prozac, the benzodiazipenes, barbiturates, et al. Products that continue to create massive profits for pharmaceutical companies, at great expense to some of the consumers, not only financially (US) but also from a health and addiction perspective. Why would they invest in Cannabis, they'd rather perhaps spend money lobbying against legalisation?

Have you looked at any of the recent research into cannabis products? There's plenty of peer-reviews out there, maybe Cochrane has an angle (I must check). 

[TheTeapot]

Just now, wrighty said:

OK, perhaps I should have said “extract, purify and quantify THC and CBD...” rather than synthesise it. As with morphine. If cannabis products were so useful they’d do this wouldn’t they? Nobody is asking to be allowed to grow their own poppies in greenhouses to extract and smoke opium. I understand that they might if morphine were unavailable on prescription. 

My point is sort of, it doesn't need to be extracted and purified. It's fine as it it is. The plant is easy to grow, and to dry an cure it is a very simple process. Tobacco as an example is harder to grow and much harder to cure, which is why no one really bothers growing it in their back garden, it tastes like crap. 

That sativex spray is a pharmaceutical manufactured quantified product I think, but I'm not sure what it is for. I'm sue there are others, probably in the US. Like I said, I'm dubious of peoples claims of it as a wonder drug.

[finlo]

53 minutes ago, Boo Gay'n said:

For plants of various kinds, we can now produce artificial light which is better than daylight (i.e. to stimulate growth or the production of natural chemicals).  Greenhouses can be shaded, of course - it's more a question of whether we change-loving Manxies can cope with them being here.

Whoosh Parrot for Boo!

Edited December 3, 2020 by finlo

[quilp]

10 minutes ago, wrighty said:

OK, perhaps I should have said “extract, purify and quantify THC and CBD...” rather than synthesise it. As with morphine. If cannabis products were so useful they’d do this wouldn’t they? Nobody is asking to be allowed to grow their own poppies in greenhouses to extract and smoke opium. I understand that they might if morphine were unavailable on prescription. 

But some smaller companies already are extracting the natural product. As I said earlier, why would the existing pharma producers invest in cannabis research when they have synthetic products already that produce the desired results? Or not, as some expensive lawsuits would claim.

Opiates are a different matter. Most cannabis users I've met aren't interested in them although a grand old wizard over here, now long dead at 96, used to produce his own raw opium from poppies in his garden, apparently as his grannie did, and make a pot of tea with it (ugh). Produced some far-out art work and poetry on it too. (From him I developed an interest in de quincy).

But I digress. In various parts of the States, and some more enlightened countries of Europe, Cannabis products are already freely available. In quality-controlled, measured strengths to suit, for medical and recreational use. I agree with Teapot, some of the claims made for Cannabis are over the top; "cures cancer" "shrunk my brain tumour to undetectable level" etc., I just don't believe it, coincidental at best.

Why people can't step out and get a little stoned from time to time without breaking some archaic law is beyond me...

[Scotty]

9 minutes ago, quilp said:

But some smaller companies already are extracting the natural product. As I said earlier, why would the existing pharma producers invest in cannabis research when they have synthetic products already that produce the desired results? Or not, as some expensive lawsuits would claim.

Opiates are a different matter. Most cannabis users I've met aren't interested in them although a grand old wizard over here, now long dead at 96, used to produce his own raw opium from poppies in his garden, apparently as his grannie did, and make a pot of tea with it (ugh). Produced some far-out art work and poetry on it too. (From him I developed an interest in de quincy).

But I digress. In various parts of the States, and some more enlightened countries of Europe, Cannabis products are already freely available. In quality-controlled, measured strengths to suit, for medical and recreational use. I agree with Teapot, some of the claims made for Cannabis are over the top; "cures cancer" "shrunk my brain tumour to undetectable level" etc., I just don't believe it, coincidental at best.

Why people can't step out and get a little stoned from time to time without breaking some archaic law is beyond me...

My dad died at 96. The nearest he ever came to an opioid, was wearing a Poppy for remembrance. Just saying.

[Apple]

1 hour ago, quilp said:

Why people can't step out and get a little stoned from time to time without breaking some archaic law is beyond me...

It is not as simple as that though is it. 

As attested to here previously that many people use it on the island I wonder how many drive under it's influence. 

Its influence and impact on mental health and mental illness is being overlooked on this thread, as it usually is. 

Let's face it, won't happen in the UK, won't happen here.

[horatiotheturd]

5 hours ago, Apple said:

It is not as simple as that though is it. 

As attested to here previously that many people use it on the island I wonder how many drive under it's influence. 

Its influence and impact on mental health and mental illness is being overlooked on this thread, as it usually is. 

Let's face it, won't happen in the UK, won't happen here.

How many dfive under the influence?

Off the top of my head and based on my social circle - loads.  Why?  What's the insinuation given we know police can test for it after some recent cases in the press and that I can't ever recall a driving problem of any significance being reported where it has been cited as a factor.

Never touched it myself by the way.  But I have no issue at all with the fact that some others do (loads of people, of all walks of life)