Apple Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 According to the Retention of Records for DHSC Community Health services:- press releases etc should be held for 6 years. Please note the policy appears to be overdue for review by 2 years or so. Author is C Quilliam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Apple said: According to the Retention of Records for DHSC Community Health services:- press releases etc should be held for 6 years. Please note the policy appears to be overdue for review by 2 years or so. Author is C Quilliam. No, no, its 14 days, apparently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, rachomics said: I've never been on commercial rates with the DHSC. Feel free to do your own FOI if you need someone official to tell you that. The only invoices I've put into the DHSC to date are for the test reagents I've been providing at cost. I don't believe I mentioned what rates,I mentioned principles. Untenable I believe was the word you used,which it either is,or isn't. It seems the latter after all is what I point out. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Whatever GDPR says surely the act of reading the letter out in public means it automatically becomes a public document? Or does that now mean that any document that is read aloud by a government official or minister in public can magically disappear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) A Data Processor (MBE) Edited November 19, 2020 by b4mbi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: Whatever GDPR says surely the act of reading the letter out in public means it automatically becomes a public document? Or does that now mean that any document that is read aloud by a government official or minister in public can magically disappear? You must only keep personal information for as long as is required for its purpose. The pressure point is purpose, which in this case seems to be to read it out during a press conference. There is no pre-determined period under GDPR that I can find. Prudence would suggest that the purpose may exist for longer than the period of reading it, whether that is in a press conference or not. If GDPR really meant you had to destroy personal information as soon as it is read, imagine the fallout for litigation, proper record keeping and following an audit trail. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachomics Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 51 minutes ago, Gladys said: You must only keep personal information for as long as is required for its purpose. The pressure point is purpose, which in this case seems to be to read it out during a press conference. There is no pre-determined period under GDPR that I can find. Prudence would suggest that the purpose may exist for longer than the period of reading it, whether that is in a press conference or not. If GDPR really meant you had to destroy personal information as soon as it is read, imagine the fallout for litigation, proper record keeping and following an audit trail. I deal in ISO lab testing regulations most days (this one, if you're interested). If I chucked out a piece of paper pertaining to a test result that someone might dispute at a later date I'd be up a certain creek. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, rachomics said: I deal in ISO lab testing regulations most days (this one, if you're interested). If I chucked out a piece of paper pertaining to a test result that someone might dispute at a later date I'd be up a certain creek. Indeed. Over nearly 40 years, I have had to look at record keeping, (I know, what an exciting life) and recent GDPR considerations are, practically, not that far off what was being considered in the 80s when the real concern, at that time, was the cost of maintaining paper records. The concern was what to keep to respond to litigation. Of course, computerisation and the automated database approach to being able to hold and interrogate records necessitated proper protection of personal information. But, the underlying issue is that you keep, securely and reasonably, documents so that you have the 'corporate memory' for a whole host of reasons within the legal requirements of the time. You do not destroy documents in 14 days, particularly if they have been used for a purpose beyond that originally intended. I will have to look at the briefing again, but there was something about having passed on the letter, there was no need to keep it. So, does anyone have it, even in electronic form? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachomics Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gladys said: I will have to look at the briefing again, but there was something about having passed on the letter, there was no need to keep it. So, does anyone have it, even in electronic form? A very good point worth following up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmmmm Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I find this whole saga very troubling. Why is Minister Ashford using the shield of GDPR to try to justify his actions, irrespective of the the need for openness and clarity in regard to the letter. The interview exchange with PM is unseemly and he is clearly flustered by the line of questioning. The persona is one of belligerence and defence, unwilling to expand further than GDPR. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ashford-pressed-on-destroyed-letter/ Furthermore, the minister seems unsure if he is a Data Controller or Data Processor. https://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/am-i-a-data-controller-or-a-data-processor-and-why-is-it-important-anyway/#:~:text=The data controller is the person (or business),data controller (excluding the data controller’s own employees). Is the purpose of the correspondence complete? Has a line been drawn under this matter?, I think not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 The irony is that if this letter was anonymously authored, there is no personal information to control, process or protect, other than DA's, of course. But, that is likely more to do with crap reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Ashford's a religious man, if I was Moulton I'd be pulling a bible out of my back pocket and demanding he swore on it about Lettergate next time I had him on camera. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just as a comparison of how 'things beyond our control' are used to promote a position. Again, going back a very long time, the oft used indisputable petticoat excuse was insurance. So, we can't do that as the insurance won't cover it, or we can't because of insurance, etc. In one job, we had a very dogmatic facilities manager (caretaker) who was absolutely against stuff like 'bring your daughter to work day', saying we have no insurance. So, point one, it doesn't affect your liability if you have insurance, just your ability to pay out in the event of an accident. Point two, where is the insurer's prohibition? So, being the person that arranged the whole group's insurance, I gave a quick call to the brokers and my sneaking feeling that it was bollocks was confirmed! ( Actually, I knew it was bollocks, but just wanted the brokers to confirm.) And so it goes on with H&S and now GDPR. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymann Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Just out of interest, why are we still doing the briefings on Zoom? One thing I know and have seen about the Health Minister if that he is far more uncomfortable in situations in a personal setting. Zoom and this current format hes far better off at deflecting. Edited November 19, 2020 by jaymann 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, Gladys said: The irony is that if this letter was anonymously authored, there is no personal information to control, process or protect, other than DA's, of course. But, that is likely more to do with crap reporting. My understanding is that the letter was authored, however the author wished to remain anonymous. I don’t believe the letter should have been read out though regardless. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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