Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[snowman]

10 minutes ago, tetchtyke said:

It would be fascinating to know how CoMin voted on many of these issues.

FWIW I think her pontificating on Twitter was unhelpful and caused others to double down on their position, making it even less likely they would change course. Although I can understand why she would feel frustrated, the endless joy of being an adviser is that your advice is not always heeded. And it wasn't an argument she was ever going to win, especially not doing it so publicly.

Let's hope there are no further deaths

[AcousticallyChallenged]

39 minutes ago, buncha wankas said:

Well said, I wonder who paid towards her so called qualifications in her chosen field.  
Washing her dirty knickers in public is getting boring now.

 We have avoided Covid for many months, unlikely any testing regime would prevents sparks getting out of the fireplace.   She is just advertising herself as far as I am concerned.   Never heard of her before Government gave her work and look forward to not hearing about her again.  She reminds me of Mr Jetski.  

Fortunately, I don't think 'bunchawankas' is really the pinnacle of molecular biology. There are plenty of people you probably haven't heard of that do quite good things.

Take a look at her academic profile, and take note, you don't get cited if your work is crap.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CnlfwogAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao

I think somehow, she might know a bit more about sparks from the fireplace than you. She had been saying for months, that as the numbers in England went up, we were simply playing the numbers by not testing.

If testing didn't prevent what happened, why have they bothered bringing it in now?

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

Just childish to be honest. She did explain to me in a PM and I do admire her for her qualifications, but publicly washing your laundry is not quite cricket. I have no personal issue with her as I have told her.

Have you never heard the term whistle-blowing? Dr G. tried every avenue and was well aware of what was at risk on her island. She isn't doing this for publicity, she's been offered far better gigs than helping out testing for COVID on a small island. But she wants to put her neck out, for the good of the island. It's a pandemic, we don't have time for cricket.

We are currently in a situation that could have plausibly been avoided, if the calls for testing had been listened to months ago.

The outbreak on the island is actively impacting upon people's health, both mental and physical. It's stopping people from being able to work, to put food on the table for their kids, to look after granny, and to keep the lights of their businesses on. There is also a credible risk to life, and the ongoing vaccination program, as HQ and DA often like to remind us.

The Island is in a very fortunate position to have resources on the island that would actively, and arguably, uniquely for the size of the island, give us an insight into how best to trace and mitigate against the ongoing outbreak. From a quick look, I don't think this is something either Jersey or Guernsey have at their disposal. The Isle of Wight have taken to military helicopters evacuating patients to hospitals able to treat them.

Everywhere is different, and I doubt there is a better opportunity for us, or the rest of the world fighting against COVID to understand how, why, where and when this virus spreads. It's a damn shame that that's going to waste because of politics.

[Andy Onchan]

10 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

If testing didn't prevent what happened, why have they bothered bringing it in now?

 

+1

[tetchtyke]

9 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

She had been saying for months, that as the numbers in England went up, we were simply playing the numbers by not testing.

I think they simply didn't want to pay for it, and got complacent with the 14 days as the cheaper option.

I don't think it was ever about the numbers or being Covid-free, as anyone sitting at home with it wouldn't really count anyway.

[jaymann]

Just now, tetchtyke said:

I think they simply didn't want to pay for it, and got complacent with the 14 days as the cheaper option.

I don't think it was ever about the numbers or being Covid-free, as anyone sitting at home with it wouldn't really count anyway.

But, test test test and 14 Days is Gold Standard, right...?

[tetchtyke]

6 minutes ago, jaymann said:

But, test test test and 14 Days is Gold Standard, right...?

It is if everyone who comes back as a group all come back with it.

They got complacent and didn't factor in the fact that a group self-isolating together can pass it amongst themselves, so the 14 days wasn't enough. Especially not when people decide to ignore their symptoms and come out of isolation anyway. They were certainly too trusting of people to be honest.

A shame as we saw that happened as long ago as February last year with the cruise ship in Japan.

Edited January 12, 2021 by tetchtyke

[AcousticallyChallenged]

4 minutes ago, tetchtyke said:

I think they simply didn't want to pay for it, and got complacent with the 14 days as the cheaper option.

I don't think it was ever about the numbers or being Covid-free, as anyone sitting at home with it wouldn't really count anyway.

I don't disagree, but it has clearly been an expensive gamble.

I think there is a political element too nudging the decision. A vocal proportion of the nation would have loved to see level 5 borders from the first moment we picked up a case through testing.

Over the summer, the numbers were in their favour, infection rates were around 1 in 500 according to the ONS in September, and it was speculated with the old strain that being infectious after 14 days was around that magical 1% figure. In other words, you'd need to be really unlucky to get a combo of both.

However, with the new strain, massively increased infections in the UK, and a potentially longer incubation period, that numbers game turned into a waiting game.

[tetchtyke]

12 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

However, with the new strain, massively increased infections in the UK, and a potentially longer incubation period, that numbers game turned into a waiting game.

I'm not sure there is a longer incubation period. I know Dr Glover floated the theory on Twitter but there wasn't much agreement from her colleagues.

The hole in the quarantine was always groups coming back together. One contracts it across, bring it back and the rest contract it off them here, but all leave isolation together. Person A and B travel back together; person A  got it across and would be fine on day 14, but person B might only be at day 7 of their infection when they leave quarantine. Day 13 testing would have caught person B.

It also relied on people being honest about their symptoms, or indeed having symptoms. I do still wonder how many people are genuinely asymptomatic and how many just tell contact tracers that they were.

Edited January 12, 2021 by tetchtyke

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

Just childish to be honest. She did explain to me in a PM and I do admire her for her qualifications, but publicly washing your laundry is not quite cricket. I have no personal issue with her as I have told her.

Its not a game of cricket. 

[Annoymouse]

1 minute ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

However, with the new strain, massively increased infections in the UK, and a potentially longer incubation period, that numbers game turned into a waiting game.

The festive period also sees more people socialise, it was a ticking time bomb not just introducing 13 day testing earlier but also not forcing the entire household to isolate rather than just the one returnee, that should have been brought in months ago.

[quilp]

1 minute ago, Annoymouse said:

The festive period also sees more people socialise, it was a ticking time bomb not just introducing 13 day testing earlier but also not forcing the entire household to isolate rather than just the one returnee, that should have been brought in months ago.

It's quite unbelievable that this was allowed to happen. 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

She’s already stated that to someone else who said similar and the answer was UK gov.

It was me when I questioned why the IOMG was not reaping the benefit of their investment in her education.  Her degree was IOMG funded but post grad and doctorate were funded by the UK. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Gladys
Crappy English.

[Apple]

11 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Have you never heard the term whistle-blowing? Dr G. tried every avenue and was well aware of what was at risk on her island. She isn't doing this for publicity, she's been offered far better gigs than helping out testing for COVID on a small island. But she wants to put her neck out, for the good of the island. It's a pandemic, we don't have time for cricket.

 

This is part of one of the most sensible posts I have seen on this thread. 

I totally agree with the use of the media to raise an issue that could be deemed to be in the best interests of the public when all else fails. It encourage and causes levels of accountability and needs to be embedded certainly in  in government practices and standards - which is what the recent whistleblowing committee recommended.

As for Dr G, I would not be surprised now if some of our backbenchers started muttering their support, albeit belatedly, for her and express recriminations that DA did not keep her on board no matter what.

For him to have done that though would have probably meant him having to go right up against some of those very people he is having to rely on to keep this ship on a even keel. 

And let us not forget - it is his ship. Will we see a mutiny ?

[Barlow]

So just for clarity, I wonder, how much influence our Director of Public Health, Dr Henrietta Ewart, had over this matter?

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Barlow
Wording: 'decision' replaced by 'matter'