Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Dr. Grumpy]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No it's not - this is her standalone business.  What she did was help set up the Covid testing facility based on a DNA analyser that DEFA had had sitting around for nearly a decade, doing nothing and then ran it, trained the existing microbiology staff to operate it, set up the correct protocols for running it and sourced the chemicals and so on needed to operate it (this is harder than you would think with current demand).

I think you're spot on as I recall seeing a IoM Gov press release calling the test centre a joint venture

[Declan]

12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No it's not - this is her standalone business.  What she did was help set up the Covid testing facility based on a DNA analyser that DEFA had had sitting around for nearly a decade, doing nothing and then ran it, trained the existing microbiology staff to operate it, set up the correct protocols for running it and sourced the chemicals and so on needed to operate it (this is harder than you would think with current demand).

The govt's attitude seems to be - "If it's up and running, everyone trained, then there's no need to listen to her."

[Rhumsaa]

6 minutes ago, Declan said:

The govt's attitude seems to be - "If it's up and running, everyone trained, then there's no need to listen to her."

good business decision from independent contractors actually, as when it inevitably starts to fall apart you could probably name your price to return and fix it

I am absolutely categorically not saying that is the intent here

But it'd serve some small minded people right if it occurred

The only problem is those people wouldn't suffer - just the tax payer

[Roger Mexico]

15 minutes ago, Declan said:

The govt's attitude seems to be - "If it's up and running, everyone trained, then there's no need to listen to her."

Well it's exactly what you would expect from them - and of course incredibly short-sighted as the science develops all the time.  She still hopes to be involved:

Of course one thing this has proved is that the politicians weren't telling the truth when they said she wasn't an employee, which tells you just how much they are being misinformed themselves (not that some of them seem to care).

[Rhumsaa]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Of course one thing this has proved is that the politicians weren't telling the truth when they said she wasn't an employee, which tells you just how much they are being misinformed themselves (not that some of them seem to care).

I see it as the politicians being unable to deviate from speaking in absolutes and always wanting to be right

In the scheme of things it's such a nothing point whether she's directly employed or contract or bank staff or whatever - bottom line is she was working with the health dept and being paid by IOM Gov so that's a dead easy general press conference answer - the contractual nuances are only important if you're wanting to be pricks about it all

[Roger Mexico]

8 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

In the scheme of things it's such a nothing point whether she's directly employed or contract or bank staff or whatever - bottom line is she was working with the health dept and being paid by IOM Gov so that's a dead easy general press conference answer - the contractual nuances are only important if you're wanting to be pricks about it all

Oh quite - that's why I relegated it to a footnote earlier.  But the telling point was that her employment status, in their eyes, justified her being excluded from any input into policy.  Who you were, rather than what you had to offer was the important thing.

[Rhumsaa]

1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

Oh quite - that's why I relegated it to a footnote earlier.  But the telling point was that her employment status, in their eyes, justified her being excluded from any input into policy.  Who you were, rather than what you had to offer was the important thing.

telling or damning, either way I very much agree with your summary there and am once again not surprised but disappointed

[BallaDoc]

The amazing thing for me is how Covid is pushing people into the limelight who nobody had ever heard of before.  I mean, be honest, who had heard of Dr Rachel Glover before this?  Or UK Government Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance, who is now a regular performer on the box alongside Boris Johnson?  It's like watching the tide go out and in the rock pools you find all sorts of weird blobby things with tentacles that you never even knew were things.

[ian rush]

Scientists advise, politicians decide.

[Roger Mexico]

They've now delayed the Covid media briefing from 4 pm today until tomorrow.  Apparently it's because the weekly meeting of the Council of Ministers was also delayed, after a series of workshops.  Those who pretend to run the country can't even sort out their own scheduling it seems.

It seems a bit strange that know they are going to over-run now and they haven't been shy about moving the start time at last minutes before.  So it looks like they may be trying to get the 'line' right on the 'spat'.  Though @rachomics herself pointed out that there are other important things to talk about.

[slinkydevil]

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/health-minister-saddened-by-dr-glover-resignation/

0:33 seconds: "she's not an employee of DHSC, she's an external contrator.." David Ashford



Resigned.



'a series of workshops' = getting the copywriter to come up with some good excuses.

[Rhumsaa]

9 minutes ago, slinkydevil said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/health-minister-saddened-by-dr-glover-resignation/

0:33 seconds: "she's not an employee of DHSC, she's an external contrator.." David Ashford



Resigned.



'a series of workshops' = getting the copywriter to come up with some good excuses.

so towards the end when asked who we have to replace Dr Glover.... the highly qualified consultant that's in the team... as a consultant..... are they employed or....?

[Lxxx]

27 minutes ago, ian rush said:

Scientists advise, politicians decide.

Scientists advise, politicians bring in consultants to advise again so they can then blame someone and not make a decision.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Lxxx

[monasqueen]

It's probably all down to how you define an "employee". I suspect she was not "on the books" and being paid a salary with ITIP and NIC deductions, which would make it correct that she was not an "employee".

A lot of people work for entities as "self employed", such Manx Radio presenters. Some of these people might say (for instance - not saying they do in reality) that they "work for the Radio station", or wherever, and they may even say that they are "employed", when it is their company that is employed (contracted).

Just surmising that Rachel's company may have been contracted to the DHSC, but that she was not, as an individual, subject to DHSC employment rules, terms and conditions.

What's in a word?

[Out of the blue]

The IoM Govt, like other small jurisdictions 'automatically' promotes too many people from within, based in many instances on length of service/dead mans shoes, as opposed to actively seeking better qualified applicants who are suitable for the job. A number of Govt senior managers are in positions they could only dream of occupying in a corporate environment, and get by through daily bluff and bluster. When someone who is capable, intelligent and articulate threatens their delicate self esteem, they turn on them, as I suspect is the case with Dr Glover. It is a sad indictment on the civil service in general.