Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Gladys]

14 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

She agreed to be paid as bank staff because that worked out to be the easiest and quickest way to organise things and to pay her in the middle of a crisis.  But she wasn't exactly able to pick her own hours because of that crisis - she was having to work all possible hours just to keep things going.  Effectively they were getting a full time professional contractor at much lower bank rates.

Once the crisis lessened during the Summer, she obviously wanted to regularise things and to put the Path Lab Covid testing on a more professional basis, less dependent on her personally and the equipment they had borrowed for free from her company.  The DHSC seem to have failed pretty much completely, taking ages to order a replacement robot and unable to set up their own supply of reagents.  She seems to have done her best to train up existing staff, but I get the impression that there may not have been enough extra people recruited of the right calibre (or at all) to make up the manpower gap so she could get back to her own business.

As I've said before this is the pattern we have seen consistently from the Manx Government - leaving things to last minute and then expecting everyone else to do whatever they demand.  It's the sort of behaviour you might expect from a spoilt small child, not from very well paid managers supposed to be professionally competent.

As for the coding theft, the point she is making is that the DHSC and its lawyers in the AG's Office are simultaneously claiming that:

(a)  The code was written by them anyway

(b)  Her removing her code meant that they couldn't operate the testing

(c) They had back-up copies

(d) They had to get the manufacturers to supply new code

(e) Two of their own staff spent weeks writing the new code

(There may have been more, but I lost the will to live at this point)

It's not just that these things are demonstrably all untrue - she has old copy of the code on GitHub; testing didn't stop last year when they claim it was forced to - it's that these accusations all contradict each other.  They're just making up random shit and throwing it without caring if it makes sense. 

And it all could have been avoided by a simple licencing agreement.  As ever they seem obsessed with 'saving' tiny amounts of money while carrying out actions (or not doing so when they should) things that cost enormous sums.  Penny wise and pound foolish seems to be the motto.

There was the allegation that when she removed her code she also removed DHSC's code, apparently.

Why DHSC were being so pig headed is beyond me.

 

[WindJammer]

1 hour ago, Manx17 said:

I have listened to  it , I wouldn’t of commented if I hadn’t .

 

1 hour ago, Manx17 said:

from the coding theft allegation , she knew at that point that (if true )  government were struggling to provide testing with her resigning and wanting the robot back and being a clever lady she must of  known how hard that would be to put in place , as she already stated it happened at the start of the pandemic. So with her thinking she was badly thought off by government or managers  , she actually hurt the islands people . She was either doing what she had done at the start for the good of the people or for the good of government or her status in my view . 

If we want to go into specifics rather than things you seem to have made up for a minute. She didn’t remove the software straight off. She says that when she realized what was going on she offered to license the robot to government. I assume she did that as she wanted to keep IP that her company owned and had invested into and just wanted to draw a clear line drawn between her ‘helping’ and her giving away expensive software her company had developed to government for free. She said she got no response to her repeated requests for a licensing agreement so then as a last resort sent them a legal letter asking for it back. Then the software was removed as they still refused to enter into a license and as part of that process she says she found many unauthorized copies taken without her consent. 

She didn’t leave the IOM public in the lurch as you seem to imply as it seems they either bought or developed another bot (or held on to yet more copies she didn’t know about) Personally I think there’s a fine line between helping and getting your pants completely taken down. 

[The Voice of Reason]

19 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

She agreed to be paid as bank staff because that worked out to be the easiest and quickest way to organise things and to pay her in the middle of a crisis.  But she wasn't exactly able to pick her own hours because of that crisis - she was having to work all possible hours just to keep things going.  Effectively they were getting a full time professional contractor at much lower bank rates.

Once the crisis lessened during the Summer, she obviously wanted to regularise things and to put the Path Lab Covid testing on a more professional basis, less dependent on her personally and the equipment they had borrowed for free from her company.  The DHSC seem to have failed pretty much completely, taking ages to order a replacement robot and unable to set up their own supply of reagents.  She seems to have done her best to train up existing staff, but I get the impression that there may not have been enough extra people recruited of the right calibre (or at all) to make up the manpower gap so she could get back to her own business.

 

You seem to be privy to a lot of Dr Glovers thought processes

[WindJammer]

1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You seem to be privy to a lot of Dr Glovers thought processes

And you David Ashfords to be fair. 

[Roger Mexico]

2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You seem to be privy to a lot of Dr Glovers thought processes

Yes I did it by listening to what she said. 

An unknown skill in Manx Government circles it appears.

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes I did it by listening to what she said. 

An unknown skill in Manx Government circles it appears.

Didn't you just skim it? 

[The Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes I did it by listening to what she said. 

 

“ I get the impression “ You put your own interpretation on what she said.

[Non-Believer]

3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

“ I get the impression “ You put your own interpretation on what she said.

That was the last four lines pertaining to the recruitment of suitable staff. No more. The rest is in the public domain and is available to anyone who can be bothered to listen to it.

[Ham_N_Eggs]

Did anyone noticed that Ashford said that she needed to provide the evidence to the DHSC and to the PAC to prove her claims (Dr Glover said she had provide this to the PAC) but when asked he never actually said that they had the evidence to refute the claims. He just did his usual schoolboy debating technique of waffling around the subject.

[The Voice of Reason]

8 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

She stated she wasn’t bothered about  money ,she was doing it to help .  So why the urgency to be paid and not draw up a proper contract as a business woman ? I’m not saying who is right or who is wrong and like I said . She did a fantastic thing for the island . But I’m not a hundred per cent sure if it’s not more about she wanted to take the lead more than anything and when she wasn’t,  she didn’t like it and then things fell apart . 
We  have done very well on our island considering and ourselves and government and Dr Glover have all paid a part . I think it’s very unfair that some people try to pull that apart . Dr Glover also stated that a different government asked for her help and she hesitated incase they got a better out look than the Isle of Man . It shouldn’t of been thought of in that way . It should of been what is in the best interest of every person . There is two sides then there is the truth.

Well said

[WindJammer]

6 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

She stated she wasn’t bothered about  money ,she was doing it to help .  So why the urgency to be paid and not draw up a proper contract as a business woman ? I’m not saying who is right or who is wrong and like I said . She did a fantastic thing for the island . But I’m not a hundred per cent sure if it’s not more about she wanted to take the lead more than anything and when she wasn’t,  she didn’t like it and then things fell apart . 

You can’t help without being on the payroll as they won’t deal with outside consultants so it was papered how the DHSC wanted it papered to get her in the loop. I can’t imagine the day rate was that good to be honest. But there is a difference between getting paid to advise and giving them software you have developed for free as part of the process. We don’t live in wartime. The war office don’t have the power to turn up and just steal your assets to help with the war effort. 

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, Manx17 said:

I have listened to  it , I wouldn’t of commented if I hadn’t .

RG did a very selfless thing in helping , which I think many people are grateful including myself.

But I know she has stated that she was bank staff . Bank staff choose their hours , and she then goes on to say she resigned because she wanted to be an outside contractor

 

Dr Glover has already covered her version of events, she’s also responded to numerous questions over many different threads on here, particularly during the January outbreak. It was made perfectly clear in my eyes that we would have benefitted not only from her expertise but the promised turnaround time from her lab which would have been absolutely crucial at the time.

I too thought it sounded like she had spat the dummy out over the arrangements initially, that’s certainly how it was portrayed at the time (hence Dr Glover taking the actions she has done....) it appears she actually just wanted things to be done in a more professional manner rather than the initial quick fix that was put in place but they refused to put anything in place, leaving her with no option than to leave.

 

 

[Ham_N_Eggs]

2 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

All I’m hearing inow from Dr Glover is when something goes wrong . I told you so . So she should state what it is what she is wanting from all of this

Perhaps you should listen harder because if she is in a position to say "I told you so" that is because she has already said what would happen and wasn't listened to.

[WindJammer]

2 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

BS  if that was true what about the robot wasn’t that used for free ?

That isn’t BS at all. You do understand that her commercial code which she developed for her company is legally separate to her as an individual I assume? Just because she got paid via the DHSC bank as a person for her consultancy skills doesn’t not mean that software owned by her company should have been used free. As I said it’s not the war. Someone just doesn't turn up at your shipyard and take your ship as it’s needed for the war effort and there’s nothing you can do about it.

She seems to have tried to deal with the issue nicely via a request for a for,al licensing agreement and basically got blown out / ignored. 

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, WindJammer said:

That isn’t BS at all. You do understand that her commercial code which she developed for her company is legally separate to her as an individual I assume? Just because she got paid via the DHSC bank as a person for her consultancy skills doesn’t not mean that software owned by her company should have been used free. As I said it’s not the war. Someone just doesn't turn up at your shipyard and take your ship as it’s needed for the war effort and there’s nothing you can do about it.

She seems to have tried to deal with the issue nicely via a request for a for,al licensing agreement and basically got blown out / ignored. 

Indeed, so why didn't DHSC respond positively? Hubris, incompetence?