Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Annoymouse]

44 minutes ago, quilp said:

You're ignoring the time-line, either deliberately or through just plain ignorance. She was acting altruistically before the arrangement went tit's up and felt she was being taken for a ride. 

I think it was for a few reasons, she could showcase her skills and benefit the island at the same time.

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

Dr Glover has already covered her version of events, she’s also responded to numerous questions over many different threads on here, particularly during the January outbreak. It was made perfectly clear in my eyes that we would have benefitted not only from her expertise but the promised turnaround time from her lab which would have been absolutely crucial at the time.

I too thought it sounded like she had spat the dummy out over the arrangements initially, that’s certainly how it was portrayed at the time (hence Dr Glover taking the actions she has done....) it appears she actually just wanted things to be done in a more professional manner rather than the initial quick fix that was put in place but they refused to put anything in place, leaving her with no option than to leave.

 

 

And the fact that her work was being passed off by someone else with direct access to at least Silver Command if not Gold Command.

[Annoymouse]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

And the fact that her work was being passed off by someone else with direct access to at least Silver Command if not Gold Command.

Well from what I can see they needed someone knowledgeable like Dr Glover to set up the testing, at the point that was done, the staff were trained up and their machine was running as it should, they probably thought they didn’t really need Dr Glover anyway, hence your man was taking all the credit because it was ‘his’ lab. Had Dr Glover been some expert from a UK lab they would’ve had the red carpet treatment, load of good press/praise and they would’ve been sent off home with a big fat cheque.

Whatever impact Dr Glovers quick thinking/input had we will never truly know, it would’ve been many weeks before anything else was in place, so I personally think she had a significant impact. Unfortunately she possesses the ability to see things happening from a scientific point of view long before anyone else, that in itself must be incredibly frustrating., it’s like watching a car crash. Our January lockdown/lack of testing on arrival was just one of many things she aired publicly in the valiant attempt that hopefully someone  might listen.

My best guess is they didn’t want to licence the software, use Taxa’s machine or even use Taxa for stock supplies because they didn’t want to rely on one person/one company, probably because they’ve been screwed over so many times in the past by people who just see pound signs and hold them to ransom. I’m personally looking forward to hearing the other half of the story, although I’m expecting it to be full of holes. I’ve heard Ashford praise Dr Glover in one breath but dismiss all claims in another, all in all it’s a sorry mess, with no real winners.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Annoymouse

[Gladys]

41 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Well from what I can see they needed someone knowledgeable like Dr Glover to set up the testing, at the point that was done, the staff were trained up and their machine was running as it should, they probably thought they didn’t really need Dr Glover anyway, hence your man was taking all the credit because it was ‘his’ lab. Had Dr Glover been some expert from a UK lab they would’ve had the red carpet treatment, load of good press/praise and they would’ve been sent off home with a big fat cheque.

Whatever impact Dr Glovers quick thinking/input had we will never truly know, it would’ve been many weeks before anything else was in place, so I personally think she had a significant impact. Unfortunately she possesses the ability to see things happening from a scientific point of view long before anyone else, that in itself must be incredibly frustrating., it’s like watching a car crash. Our January lockdown/lack of testing on arrival was just one of many things she aired publicly in the valiant attempt that hopefully someone  might listen.

My best guess is they didn’t want to licence the software, use Taxa’s machine or even use Taxa for stock supplies because they didn’t want to rely on one person/one company, probably because they’ve been screwed over so many times in the past by people who just see pound signs and hold them to ransom. I’m personally looking forward to hearing the other half of the story, although I’m expecting it to be full of holes. I’ve heard Ashford praise Dr Glover in one breath but dismiss all claims in another, all in all it’s a sorry mess, with no real winners.

 

Good post.  I can understand that they would want to avoid being held to ransom, but you make sure the contract deals with that, rather than nick the software. 

HQ did make reference to not relying on a lab that was really only one person as a justification for using Liverpool.  Andy Onchan has mentioned the damaging PR effect on the development of the biomed sector that this is likely to have. 

Surely the thing to do would be have a contingency plan that could be called upon to provide the minimum necessary in case RG was unable to perform for whatever reason.  That way the Rolls Royce solution would have a back up in the form of a serviceable Mini, but give a clear message of support for the sector and the IOMG's can-do attitude. 

Our USP is often given as small and agile, but this makes us look small and hamstrung. 

 

[asitis]

7 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

all in all it’s a sorry mess, with no real winners.

This is true and the public and taxpayers will be the no real winners.

[code99]

13 hours ago, Manx17 said:

What by calling the police ? 

Of course she called the police. If someone had something valuable stolen from them, who would you suggest that they call, the Jehovah Witnesses? 

Out of interest, if you, Manx17, had something stolen from you, who do you call ?

[Andy Onchan]

8 hours ago, Annoymouse said:

Well from what I can see they needed someone knowledgeable like Dr Glover to set up the testing, at the point that was done, the staff were trained up and their machine was running as it should, they probably thought they didn’t really need Dr Glover anyway, hence your man was taking all the credit because it was ‘his’ lab. 

I'm not sure that's the case and that's not who I was referring to. If I'm not mistaken RG suggested the 'passing off' was from someone in the medical group, not the laboratory. Without going back to listen to the whole thing again I think she mentioned two names.

[Major Rushen]

17 minutes ago, code99 said:

Of course she called the police. If someone had something valuable stolen from them, who would you suggest that they call, the Jehovah Witnesses? 

Out of interest, if you, Manx17, had something stolen from you, who do you call ?

Ghostbusters 

[Andy Onchan]

8 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Honestly, I don’t think RG had a problem with the government using her robot or coding up until then , without them getting a license. You know if it was that important to her the robot the contract, license. Then as a business woman I would have that set up from the start . Whilst they were still building the lab. 
If it was me and had the expertise and wanted to help . Then that’s what I would do. Things were very quiet , we had our freedom , there was no panic . It wasn’t like we had community cases . I would know I wasn’t a one man band and part off a team. Dr Khan is very good  and a very nice man and you didn’t see him kicking off when he doesn't like something . You can’t expect a government to be held to ransom  and it showed when she didn’t get her way she took her robot , which is her right but she would of known what it would do because how it went at the beginning . We don’t know if the coding has been stolen , it’s  been alleged at the moment . But all I’m going to say is if the government did use it before setting their own up , they did it to protect us , for our good . Unless you think it was for personal reasons for them . 
I’m sorry you can’t play games with peoples lives and it would. Be dangerous to go down the same road . Testing is being done now , tests are sent to Liverpool to see what variants they are for free. Vaccines are being rolled out . Hopefully we are getting over the worst and can get on with our lives. No one is a hero everyone has had to do what they have had to do . 

Why do you mention Khan?

[Gladys]

6 minutes ago, Manx17 said:

Honestly, I don’t think RG had a problem with the government using her robot or coding up until then , without them getting a license. You know if it was that important to her the robot the contract, license. Then as a business woman I would have that set up from the start . Whilst they were still building the lab. 
If it was me and had the expertise and wanted to help . Then that’s what I would do. Things were very quiet , we had our freedom , there was no panic . It wasn’t like we had community cases . I would know I wasn’t a one man band and part off a team. Dr Khan is very good  and a very nice man and you didn’t see him kicking off when he doesn't like something . You can’t expect a government to be held to ransom  and it showed when she didn’t get her way she took her robot , which is her right but she would of known what it would do because how it went at the beginning . We don’t know if the coding has been stolen , it’s  been alleged at the moment . But all I’m going to say is if the government did use it before setting their own up , they did it to protect us , for our good . Unless you think it was for personal reasons for them . 
I’m sorry you can’t play games with peoples lives and it would. Be dangerous to go down the same road . Testing is being done now , tests are sent to Liverpool to see what variants they are for free. Vaccines are being rolled out . Hopefully we are getting over the worst and can get on with our lives. No one is a hero everyone has had to do what they have had to do . 

I don't think anyone is playing games and I am sure everyone involved is nice. If government did use her machine and code to protect us, they should have properly licensed it to be sure they were able to protect us legally. 

As said before, were in a state of emergency not state requisitioning. 

[Annoymouse]

8 hours ago, Gladys said:

Good post.  I can understand that they would want to avoid being held to ransom, but you make sure the contract deals with that, rather than nick the software. 

HQ did make reference to not relying on a lab that was really only one person as a justification for using Liverpool.  Andy Onchan has mentioned the damaging PR effect on the development of the biomed sector that this is likely to have. 

Surely the thing to do would be have a contingency plan that could be called upon to provide the minimum necessary in case RG was unable to perform for whatever reason.  That way the Rolls Royce solution would have a back up in the form of a serviceable Mini, but give a clear message of support for the sector and the IOMG's can-do attitude. 

Our USP is often given as small and agile, but this makes us look small and hamstrung. 

 

At this point it’s all guess work, Dr Glover has most likely been told not to comment on matters any further, DHSC will only admit liability if there is hard concrete evidence of wrong doing, otherwise it will simply be filed under a regrettable instance of miscommunication/misunderstanding.

The theft of the software/code was clearly an act of desperation, but who’s responsible for nicking the code? I would guess that one staff member who was a bit tech savvy took it upon themselves to back up the machine (quite sensible in that scenario) not thinking about the potential consequences of it belonging to Taxa, when push comes to shove it will be that one person who gets thrown under the bus, unless of course they were instructed by someone else, in which case it will fall down to them.

As for the one man band scenario, Government contracts always seem to be handed out to the big guys.

 

[Rhumsaa]

I think all this is pretty simple and pretty basic.

Dr Glover wasn't happy with DHSC procedures and interactions and because she had no monetary reliance upon it she took to Twitter to vent and started tagging journalists.

This then resulted in questions being asked at briefings of the big cheeses and they didn't like it, it spoiled their basking in success. So instead of acting professionally and taking the high ground and getting it sorted behind the scenes they engaged in really petty and poorly executed statements in response.

The rest of it is just noise and back and forths.

 

[Annoymouse]

5 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

I think all this is pretty simple and pretty basic.

Dr Glover wasn't happy with DHSC procedures and interactions and because she had no monetary reliance upon it she took to Twitter to vent and started tagging journalists.

This then resulted in questions being asked at briefings of the big cheeses and they didn't like it, it spoiled their basking in success. So instead of acting professionally and taking the high ground and getting it sorted behind the scenes they engaged in really petty and poorly executed statements in response.

The rest of it is just noise and back and forths.

 

That’s a rough summary of things. Its been made evidently clear they don’t understand how Genomics work, nor do they want to listen. Next time around we will be having the same nonsense when the first vaccine resistant strain takes hold, once again we will be on the back foot waiting for Liverpool lab to process the results.

[piebaps]

18 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

I think all this is pretty simple and pretty basic.

Dr Glover wasn't happy with DHSC procedures and interactions and because she had no monetary reliance upon it she took to Twitter to vent and started tagging journalists.

This then resulted in questions being asked at briefings of the big cheeses and they didn't like it, it spoiled their basking in success. So instead of acting professionally and taking the high ground and getting it sorted behind the scenes they engaged in really petty and poorly executed statements in response.

The rest of it is just noise and back and forths.

 

Best summary I've seen to date.

 

[Rhumsaa]

I was just repeating myself unnecessarily

Edited April 7, 2021 by Rhumsaa