Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Gladys]

19 minutes ago, Pipsqueak said:

i tend to agree, i don't think it would have been her job to check the steamracket staff were isolating as government  'understood'

Agree, but if she was "on the team" perhaps she may have seen the chink in the armour.  I am still dumbfounded at HE's reaction to PM's revelation that the SP staff didn't isolate. 

[John Wright]

Doesn’t look as if there will be a reconciliation, nor a rebuttal response before the DHSC appears before the PAC.

The Department of Health and Social Care has listened in detail to the Public Accounts Committee’s recent session with Dr Glover around genomic sequencing.

The department continues to express interest in Dr Glover’s expertise in biomedical science and ability to translate a complex field into a simple message for all to understand. The department values all technical and peer-reviewed evidence in supporting the Council of Ministers’ pandemic response plans.

Dr Glover was invited to become part of the DHSC’s governance structures last year by its medical director and relevant clinical director, but Dr Glover’s decision to reset her relationship with the department meant this was not possible. Biomedical scientist support has nevertheless continued to be provided to DHSC professionals on Island, via the UK national network and directly through an extensive laboratory team in Liverpool. 

The DHSC has on a number of occasions expressed its thanks to Dr Glover for her work and support in the set-up of COVID testing during 2020. Her contribution alongside many others in the Isle of Man is evidence that the management of the pandemic has been, and continues to be, a team effort from across the community. The department will always be grateful and immensely proud of all those who have contributed many hours over a long period of time.

With reference to the wider comments about Dr Glover’s and Taxa Genomics’ relationship with the DHSC, the department is in the process of sharing all the relevant documentation with the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and looks forward to attending a session in the coming months in order to represent its professional position in these matters.

In this respect, the DHSC will correct the position presented regarding intellectual property rights and confirm that alternative arrangements were already in place as part of its provider resilience planning. This approach is consistent with the principles around single supplier relationships for critical clinical services, and is also a consideration in relation to the wider requirements for longer-term genomic sequencing which were under consideration.  

Following instruction of advocates by Taxa and Dr Glover to open correspondence with the department, a detailed review of the position was undertaken. The pathology labatory in DHSC confirmed that any previous documentation/codes were no longer in use at that agreed point as they were no longer needed, and a detailed timeline of this will be provided to the PAC.

The Department was disappointed that Taxa Genomics, particularly as an on Island provider, did not feel able to respond to the required DHSC governance arrangements. Taxa then took the decision to withdraw all potential services including failing to supply reagent consumables in breach of an agreement it had entered into with the department.

Minister David Ashford said: ‘I would like to express ongoing thanks to our small pathology lab team at Noble’s Hospital who continue to provide a comprehensive service which would be the envy of many hospital teams across other health care systems. The team’s continued resilience in supporting our extensive COVID testing programme has been phenomenal, recently celebrating a major milestone in undertaking over 24,000 tests in the first three months of 2021 - compared to around 21,000 tests in total in 2020. They have my full support in continuing to provide a plethora of on-island services for our residents. Their continued investment in further expertise is a credit to our health and care system.’

ISLE OF MAN GOVERNMENT

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & SOCIAL CARE

[littlebushy]

Officers have been working 17 hour days to come up with that!

[Garteth T]

26 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Agree, but if she was "on the team" perhaps she may have seen the chink in the armour.  I am still dumbfounded at HE's reaction to PM's revelation that the SP staff didn't isolate. 

You do not need to be a expert to understand where the chinks in the armour were and/or are. It was and remains about balancing the risk. To lessen the risk you would make SP crew members who are resident in the IoM isolate when they returned to the IoM and be frequently tested. The same with airline staff. However the chances of workers and unions agreeing to that are pretty much zero as that would in effect require staff and families to be in self isolation almost indefinitely. Also the testing for those who have never had it is pretty unpleasant. It is not something I would want to have to undergo frequently.  Would you also require those collecting people from the airport to self isolate unless they had a separate compartment in a vehicle as they could have contracted whilst collecting. I think we had and have to accept those minimal risk as what you would have to put in place to make the IoM totally secure would not be acceptable.

The more obvious failure was not considering that if two or more people travelled together there was a risk that one could pass to another and that if you did not test all at days 1, 7/8 and 13 there was a small risk that depending on the dates the infection was transferred it was potentially possible that an infection might be picked up.  I think that is what happened at Christmas and IoM Govt got that wrong.

It would have been useful to have RGs local testing but I don't think that purely having her still involved would have guaranteed no more cases as Barlow implies. The most obvious advantage is that it may have identified the most recent single "community" case and got us out of the current lockdown a week earlier. Generally it appears the tracing team have done a pretty good job. If they had not I think genomic testing may have had a bigger part to play but as it is it might have provided reassurance but not made much difference.

I do view this site, which I have lurked looking at for years, has become less accommodating to  different views over time and does appear to have become more of an echo chamber for the same, mainly anti government, views. Government's will always be criticised, and often rightly, but many on this forum appear to have long held a certain view of HQ and that he should have never been appointed as CM in the first place and he was "falsely" appointed by legco. Consequently that colours their postings.

As I think Piebaps said some do appear to hold the view that RG is basically perfect and dare not be criticised. When she suggested the thread be removed because it included her name in the title etc several were in favour. That seemed to be simply because they were in awe of RG. Just think what sort of precedent that would have set if the mods agreed. Every person or politician could basically have asked for any thread where they were named in it removed. Imagine the outcry if those politicians often held up for ridicule on here had made such a request but because it was RG made the request there was barely a murmur with many in support.

I would also suggest you dip into postings she makes on other sites as they are posts that if others posted I expect many on here would disagree with. 15th April on twitter she questioned why the Govt did not simply issue a press release rather than have the media briefing. OK our media not be great at asking questions but at least they are given the opportunity. RGs suggestion would see that pulled. Again imagine the outcry if Govt had said we are going to stop the media briefings and just issue a press release. On the Monday after the end of the last lack she was querying why social distancing and the wearing of masks was not in place. 

I see complaints that Govt do not lock down quick enough when potential cases are first identified and then complaints they do not relax restrictions etc quick enough. That seems slightly contradictory in that the calls are for lockdowns to stop spreading in case the IoM has Covid in the community but to release it before there is reasonable certainty it has stopped spreading.

Much of this appears to be driven by basically simply by entrenched opinions leading to a knee jerk reaction. Maybe a little more thought and tolerance for others view might lead to better debate and make this site far more readable and informative for a long time lurker  

 

 

 

 

[Sheldon]

34 minutes ago, John Wright said:

in the coming months

I could have sworn Ashford said "days".

[Max Power]

8 minutes ago, Garteth T said:

You do not need to be a expert to understand where the chinks in the armour were and/or are. It was and remains about balancing the risk. To lessen the risk you would make SP crew members who are resident in the IoM isolate when they returned to the IoM and be frequently tested. The same with airline staff. However the chances of workers and unions agreeing to that are pretty much zero as that would in effect require staff and families to be in self isolation almost indefinitely. Also the testing for those who have never had it is pretty unpleasant. It is not something I would want to have to undergo frequently.  Would you also require those collecting people from the airport to self isolate unless they had a separate compartment in a vehicle as they could have contracted whilst collecting. I think we had and have to accept those minimal risk as what you would have to put in place to make the IoM totally secure would not be acceptable.

The more obvious failure was not considering that if two or more people travelled together there was a risk that one could pass to another and that if you did not test all at days 1, 7/8 and 13 there was a small risk that depending on the dates the infection was transferred it was potentially possible that an infection might be picked up.  I think that is what happened at Christmas and IoM Govt got that wrong.

It would have been useful to have RGs local testing but I don't think that purely having her still involved would have guaranteed no more cases as Barlow implies. The most obvious advantage is that it may have identified the most recent single "community" case and got us out of the current lockdown a week earlier. Generally it appears the tracing team have done a pretty good job. If they had not I think genomic testing may have had a bigger part to play but as it is it might have provided reassurance but not made much difference.

I do view this site, which I have lurked looking at for years, has become less accommodating to  different views over time and does appear to have become more of an echo chamber for the same, mainly anti government, views. Government's will always be criticised, and often rightly, but many on this forum appear to have long held a certain view of HQ and that he should have never been appointed as CM in the first place and he was "falsely" appointed by legco. Consequently that colours their postings.

As I think Piebaps said some do appear to hold the view that RG is basically perfect and dare not be criticised. When she suggested the thread be removed because it included her name in the title etc several were in favour. That seemed to be simply because they were in awe of RG. Just think what sort of precedent that would have set if the mods agreed. Every person or politician could basically have asked for any thread where they were named in it removed. Imagine the outcry if those politicians often held up for ridicule on here had made such a request but because it was RG made the request there was barely a murmur with many in support.

I would also suggest you dip into postings she makes on other sites as they are posts that if others posted I expect many on here would disagree with. 15th April on twitter she questioned why the Govt did not simply issue a press release rather than have the media briefing. OK our media not be great at asking questions but at least they are given the opportunity. RGs suggestion would see that pulled. Again imagine the outcry if Govt had said we are going to stop the media briefings and just issue a press release. On the Monday after the end of the last lack she was querying why social distancing and the wearing of masks was not in place. 

I see complaints that Govt do not lock down quick enough when potential cases are first identified and then complaints they do not relax restrictions etc quick enough. That seems slightly contradictory in that the calls are for lockdowns to stop spreading in case the IoM has Covid in the community but to release it before there is reasonable certainty it has stopped spreading.

Much of this appears to be driven by basically simply by entrenched opinions leading to a knee jerk reaction. Maybe a little more thought and tolerance for others view might lead to better debate and make this site far more readable and informative for a long time lurker  

A few, including myself, suggested that there were reasons for RG's exclusion from the centre of things pandemic. That wasn't based on first hand knowledge but rather, as you suggest, on her social media postings. I tend to agree wit a lot of what you say in your excellent first post!  

[The Old Git]

https://gef.im/2021/04/17/dhsc-responds-to-dr-glovers-pac-evidence/

[Annoymouse]

50 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The Department was disappointed that Taxa Genomics, particularly as an on Island provider, did not feel able to respond to the required DHSC governance arrangements. Taxa then took the decision to withdraw all potential services including failing to supply reagent consumables in breach of an agreement it had entered into with the department.

That’s quite a damning statement, I sincerely hope they have the evidence to back it up.

[KERED]

20 minutes ago, Sheldon said:

I could have sworn Ashford said "days".

Yes. . .   he    D I D    say "days".

[buncha wankas]

2 hours ago, Gladys said:

Agree, but if she was "on the team" perhaps she may have seen the chink in the armour.  I am still dumbfounded at HE's reaction to PM's revelation that the SP staff didn't isolate. 

I doubt it, she was on the team at the time last year but didn’t see the chink in the armour.    At the end of the day all this self promotion on social media is free publicity for her business.  

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, buncha wankas said:

I doubt it, she was on the team at the time last year but didn’t see the chink in the armour.    At the end of the day all this self promotion on social media is free publicity for her business.  

They weren't taking her advice as she wasn't staff, if you remember, that is part of the furore.

[Non-Believer]

"Days" now becoming "months" sounds immediately (to me) like an attempt to drag out and protract this.

Unless evidence has already been safely gathered and stored then memories and recollections fade which can all be to the good when trying to contest a case. And Govts have all the time (and money) in the world...

[buncha wankas]

6 minutes ago, Gladys said:

They weren't taking her advice as she wasn't staff, if you remember, that is part of the furore.

They must have been taking her advise in some areas as they took on her services, maybe didn’t give her the medal she though she deserved. 

[Barlow]

2 hours ago, Gladys said:

Agree, but if she was "on the team" perhaps she may have seen the chink in the armour.  I am still dumbfounded at HE's reaction to PM's revelation that the SP staff didn't isolate. 

This was my point.

"Yes, you've said it all Chief Minister, I can't add anything to that. . . . .  etc etc" are not words that you would hear once let alone repeatedly from RG's or many other professionals under these circumstance.

 

[Dr. Grumpy]

So, will our lab finally get ISO accreditation? I'm led to believe that it's the only hospital lab in the British Isles to not have any accreditation.