P.K. Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 59 minutes ago, rachomics said: This is where you (and the government) misunderstand the science. The high-resolution bioinformatic analysis with the genomic sequencing data that elucidates transmission chains I've been offering is PERFECT for a small island with small outbreaks (less than a few thousand cases in the total outbreak). The COG-UK research project doesn't use this approach because until very recently they've had thousands of cases per day to look at - high resolution just doesn't work at that scale. However, New Zealand and Australia have been using the high-resolution transmission chain tracking since this time last year incredibly successfully, which is why when I was part of the response I was calling for these techniques and continue to do so. Liverpool aren't providing this analysis, only the scope of the research project they have ethical approval and research funding for in the UK (i.e. what variant is it) So how confident are you that you can turn "Locally Acquired (Unknown)" into "Locally Acquired (Linked)" and save more restricted measures? Just trying to add some leverage here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Yeller Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: The Government considered the offer and decided it wasn’t right for the IOM. They have on many occasions said following expert opinions why ( for example the size of the Island renders such sequencing meaningless) and are pursuing alternative avenues. Why can’t you Glover disciples just accept that ? Horses for courses and all that. I could offer the Government a free Tarot card reading (I have an impressive track record on Tarot card reading) to assist with the COVID situation and rant and rail when my offer was declined. You seem to forget that the Government agreed a 'robust and speedy system of genomic testing is vital in the fight against' Covid-19. Not sure they have ever agreed the same about tarot card reading... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) . Edited April 23, 2021 by the stinking enigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 11 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: The Government considered the offer and decided it wasn’t right for the IOM. They have on many occasions said following expert opinions why ( for example the size of the Island renders such sequencing meaningless) and are pursuing alternative avenues. Why can’t you Glover disciples just accept that ? Horses for courses and all that. I could offer the Government a free Tarot card reading (I have an impressive track record on Tarot card reading) to assist with the COVID situation and rant and rail when my offer was declined. Covid is no joke, and any comparison to Tarot card readings is just a facetious quip. Dr Glover is a serious world class scientist, offering world class services in a field that is vital to the health of MANX citizens. The rejection of Dr Glover by this government, whether for political or dubious scientific reasons, is totally regrettable. The big egg on the IOMG face is that Tynwald rebuked the government and said that the genomic sequencing of Covid was a 'vital' tool in the fight against Covid. If you listen to the recent interview between Chris Robertshaw and PM, one gets the impression that the PAC will shortly release its report on this affair and that their report will name various ‘guilty parties’. Indications are that Dr Glover will not be on that list... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Manx Yeller said: You seem to forget that the Government agreed a 'robust and speedy system of genomic testing is vital in the fight against' Covid-19. Not sure they have ever agreed the same about tarot card reading... I dunno, I do wonder about Hetty at times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipsqueak Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Barlow said: I dunno, I do wonder about Hetty at times. thankfully i never think about her at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, code99 said: Covid is no joke, and any comparison to Tarot card readings is just a facetious quip. Dr Glover is a serious world class scientist, offering world class services in a field that is vital to the health of MANX citizens. The rejection of Dr Glover by this government, whether for political or dubious scientific reasons, is totally regrettable. The big egg on the IOMG face is that Tynwald rebuked the government and said that the genomic sequencing of Covid was a 'vital' tool in the fight against Covid. If you listen to the recent interview between Chris Robertshaw and PM, one gets the impression that the PAC will shortly release its report on this affair and that their report will name various ‘guilty parties’. Indications are that Dr Glover will not be on that list... Well, that all depends on the response from DHSC to PAC. Of course, that will not be known until the hearing in May because DA has deep respect for parliamentary processes, rightly so (except on occasion when having jumped to the wrong conclusion an announcement was made without first checking the facts to be sure that Keys were not misled, even if for a matter of hours). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERED Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Gladys said: Well, that all depends on the response from DHSC to PAC. Of course, that will not be known until the hearing in May because DA has deep respect for parliamentary processes, rightly so (except on occasion when having jumped to the wrong conclusion an announcement was made without first checking the facts to be sure that Keys were not misled, even if for a matter of hours). He did NOT jump to the wrong conclusion, Glad. He simply convoluted two different cases! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Gladys said: Well, that all depends on the response from DHSC to PAC. Of course, that will not be known until the hearing in May because DA has deep respect for parliamentary processes, rightly so (except on occasion when having jumped to the wrong conclusion an announcement was made without first checking the facts to be sure that Keys were not misled, even if for a matter of hours). That's very true. Let's wait till May to see how the cards actually fall...My impressions largely come from listening to Chris Robertshaw' s interview on Manx TV with PM. CR may have been a bit coy, but his expectations around the report sounded pretty clear. Edited April 23, 2021 by code99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 3 hours ago, KERED said: He did NOT jump to the wrong conclusion, Glad. He simply convoluted two different cases! Thanks for reminding me I am looking forward to conflated rebuttal at PAC. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 5 hours ago, Gladys said: Thanks for reminding me I am looking forward to conflated rebuttal at PAC. On the basis that it could largely be hot air, may I suggest that it might be an inflated rebuttal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, Uhtred said: On the basis that it could largely be hot air, may I suggest that it might be an inflated rebuttal. In political circles, that is abbreviated to flatulence- better out than in, easy to deliver, but hard to swallow. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Tynwald recently agreed that a 'robust and speedy system of genomic testing is vital in the fight against Covid’. That statement sounds pretty clear cut to me. However, the Director of Public Health, Dr Ewart, seems to see things differently. In her latest testimony to the Public Accounts Committee, she said that it had not been demonstrated to her that genomic testing was, ‘essential for the immediate response to cases clusters or outbreaks and indeed that it is not used in that way across.’ She ‘justified’ our non-use of Dr Glover’s genomic testing by saying that genomic testing was only used in a very limited way in the UK (across). https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-clear-evidence-genomics-needed-for-immediate-covid-response/ What she did not mention was that in countries like NZ and Australia Dr Glover’s methods of testing have been hugely successful. The underlying political issue here seems to be that our government found ‘political comfort’ in following the methods used in the UK, instead of taking the risks that come with trying to do something better, cleverer, more scientific. Sadly, for Isle of Man residents we may never know how much better things could have been if this government had been more internationally focused and more innovative, just like we may never know why the SPC fiasco actually occurred. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, code99 said: Tynwald recently agreed that a 'robust and speedy system of genomic testing is vital in the fight against Covid’. That statement sounds pretty clear cut to me. However, the Director of Public Health, Dr Ewart, seems to see things differently. In her latest testimony to the Public Accounts Committee, she said that it had not been demonstrated to her that genomic testing was, ‘essential for the immediate response to cases clusters or outbreaks and indeed that it is not used in that way across.’ She ‘justified’ our non-use of Dr Glover’s genomic testing by saying that genomic testing was only used in a very limited way in the UK (across). https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/no-clear-evidence-genomics-needed-for-immediate-covid-response/ What she did not mention was that in countries like NZ and Australia Dr Glover’s methods of testing have been hugely successful. The underlying political issue here seems to be that our government found ‘political comfort’ in following the methods used in the UK, instead of taking the risks that come with trying to do something better, cleverer, more scientific. Sadly, for Isle of Man residents we may never know how much better things could have been if this government had been more internationally focused and more innovative, just like we may never know why the SPC fiasco actually occurred. The examples I’ve seen written about vis-a-vis Aus & NZ seem to show it isn’t used as you think at all. The lock down decisions are taken on positive tests and the genomics are examined days later to help explain the transmission pathways. Track & Trace remains the most important tool. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, John Wright said: The examples I’ve seen written about vis-a-vis Aus & NZ seem to show it isn’t used as you think at all. The lock down decisions are taken on positive tests and the genomics are examined days later to help explain the transmission pathways. Track & Trace remains the most important tool. On 4/22/2021 at 10:35 PM, rachomics said: This is where you (and the government) misunderstand the science. The high-resolution bioinformatic analysis with the genomic sequencing data that elucidates transmission chains I've been offering is PERFECT for a small island with small outbreaks (less than a few thousand cases in the total outbreak). The COG-UK research project doesn't use this approach because until very recently they've had thousands of cases per day to look at - high resolution just doesn't work at that scale. However, New Zealand and Australia have been using the high-resolution transmission chain tracking since this time last year incredibly successfully, which is why when I was part of the response I was calling for these techniques and continue to do so. Liverpool aren't providing this analysis, only the scope of the research project they have ethical approval and research funding for in the UK (i.e. what variant is it) Sure, as I understand it, genomic testing and T&T are used in conjunction with each other. I think that is what Dr Glover wanted the Island to do too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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