Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, code99 said:

 

Sure, as I understand it, genomic testing and T&T are used in conjunction with each other. I think that is what Dr Glover wanted the Island to do too.

You’re still not understanding how it’s being used in AUS & NZ. It’s not the magic wand you portray.

Example.

Transmission between people in adjoining rooms in quarantine hotel. No apparent connection or breach of bio security, no sneaking between rooms. Genomic testing indicated the close relationship and the probable direction of transmission.

T&T then poured over all the evidence. Eventually went through CCTV.  The swab testing was done room to room. But all bio secure. They were able to conclude it was air pressure between rooms, corridors, open windows. This confirmed that the virus could be carried further distances over longer periods.

Took days, not minutes. 

We get genomic results. Takes a week. But the few days extra aren’t likely to make any difference.

 

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You’re still not understanding how it’s being used in AUS & NZ. It’s not the magic wand you portray.

Example.

Transmission between people in adjoining rooms in quarantine hotel. No apparent connection or breach of bio security, no sneaking between rooms. Genomic testing indicated the close relationship and the probable direction of transmission.

T&T then poured over all the evidence. Eventually went through CCTV.  The swab testing was done room to room. But all bio secure. They were able to conclude it was air pressure between rooms, corridors, open windows. This confirmed that the virus could be carried further distances over longer periods.

Took days, not minutes. 

We get genomic results. Takes a week. But the few days extra aren’t likely to make any difference.

 

Do we get analysed  genomic results, or do we get the "bar code" and a summary of the variant? The point as I understand it is that someone needs to be able to read the bar code.

[code99]

52 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You’re still not understanding how it’s being used in AUS & NZ. It’s not the magic wand you portray.

I am not portraying or mis-portraying anything. I am merely conveying what I have read in various newspaper articles, quite often in The Guardian. I am also conveying the essence of what Dr Glover has been saying. 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/apr/04/how-new-zealands-covid-success-made-it-a-laboratory-for-the-world

Edited April 28, 2021 by code99
link to The Guardian article

[the stinking enigma]

Each to their own i suppose, but it strikes me that in a vaccinated population living with the virus, the greatest threat will be from variants that the vaccine is not effective against. We will have faster genomics capability before the end of this, or there will be no end of this. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by the stinking enigma

[Happier diner]

18 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Each to their own i suppose, but it strikes me that in a vaccinated population living with the virus, the greatest threat will be from variants that the vaccine is not effective against. We will have faster genomics capability before the end of this, or there will be no end of this. 

Not if the response to all variants is the same though. 

[the stinking enigma]

The response will have to be the same if they don't know which one it is. It's bizarre how they are trying to sell it that way. There's future variants to come yet. We will be fully open by then. Only to end up back in lockdown

[the stinking enigma]

Maybe a selection of world teas is the answer. Fairtrade of course.

[Gladys]

10 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Not if the response to all variants is the same though. 

But that is the point, a more sophisticated response depending on variant may avoid lockdowns and indicate appropriate treatment, isolation periods and so on.

[Kipper99]

Mr Toad, Ashie & Hennie tiktok

 

[the stinking enigma]

Bit busy at the mo, having been dragged kicking and screaming from my bunker. As a result i have only had time so far to listen to howies evidence to the PAC. Wholly unconvincing, though i guess that's a subjective thing. Bit surprised at the angle the media have chosen to report on, given the bluster howie managed to come up with, but hey, who am i to question the chief minister?

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

The examples I’ve seen written about vis-a-vis Aus & NZ seem to show it isn’t used as you think at all. The lock down decisions are taken on positive tests and the genomics are examined days later to help explain the transmission pathways. Track & Trace remains the most important tool.

In New Zealand, lockdown decisions are made on positive tests because they are taken straight away, rather than wait.  But genomic results are available in about 24 hours and are used to inform test strategy and help trace links.  They confirm that the chains of infection are as thought and possibly indicate links not previously recognised.  Genomics are an essential part of track and trace, not something separate.

[Johnny F]

I have made it clear that I have no faith in Henrietta Ewart's ability in the past and her latest comments have done nothing to change that. To say that "it has not been demonstrated to her that genomic testing would change our approach to dealing with an outbreak"  is extremely frustrating. We will never know if genomic testing would influence our reaction to an outbreak because Henrietta won't allow, request, sanction the testing. Its feels like I'm living in some kind of awful catch 22 situation.

DrG "can I do some genetic testing please?" 

HE "theres no evidence that it helps, so no"

DrG "well can we do some testing to find out if it helps ?"

HE "theres no point doing any testing as theres no evidence that it would help"

DrG "so lets do some testing and I'll try and demonstrate to you that it helps?"

HE "They don't do it across, so no"

Round and round we go, stuck in Henriettas world where she can't see past her pension forecast.

Henrietta, do us all a favour and just fucking retire will you?

[Happier diner]

11 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

In New Zealand, lockdown decisions are made on positive tests because they are taken straight away, rather than wait.  But genomic results are available in about 24 hours and are used to inform test strategy and help trace links.  They confirm that the chains of infection are as thought and possibly indicate links not previously recognised.  Genomics are an essential part of track and trace, not something separate.

Have you any evidence what-so-ever to support this claim. They locked down straight away. They tracked and traced the infections and isolated. Once they had done that and they were happy that they had it contained they opened up. Like us they used the blunt instrument. Nowhere can I see where the genomic sequencing helped other than retrospectively, They were able to link them (which is fair enough) and help then confirm they were all from the same trail. They were. 

To me that makes the genomics a useful, but ultimately bit part player. Like us they rely significantly on track and trace.

Like I keep saying. The genomic sequencing is clearly of value and we should be able to get result more quickly. It may become a major player as we live with infections. I get that. But what I don't get is all the banging on on here that it would have been a game changer for us and some even deluded enough to think it would have prevented or shortened our lockdown. It wouldn't. (IMHO)

[Happier diner]

12 hours ago, Gladys said:

But that is the point, a more sophisticated response depending on variant may avoid lockdowns and indicate appropriate treatment, isolation periods and so on.

This may be correct when there comes a time when we are dealing with multiple variants. I agree with that. To date we haven't though and as such the response and actions to date (IMO) have been proportionate and appropriate.

[P.K.]

36 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Like I keep saying. The genomic sequencing is clearly of value and we should be able to get result more quickly. It may become a major player as we live with infections. I get that. But what I don't get is all the banging on on here that it would have been a game changer for us and some even deluded enough to think it would have prevented or shortened our lockdown. It wouldn't. (IMHO)

The Terrible Trio seem to get agitated when a "Locally Acquired (Unknown)" case pops up. As I understand it genomics gives the means to link that to a previous "Locally Acquired (Linked)" one.

Not only does that then change the status of the new case but surely Track and Trace then have another datum point to work on to physically link the cases and they might even find a third party?

You know, a bit like those puzzles kids like doing where they join up all the dots to draw a donkey...