Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Twitch]

6 hours ago, Holte End said:

David Ashford is more an Oddjob, trying to shine under Howards Auric. Than Bond M together.

I had him more like Scaramanga from The Man with the Golden Gun. As played by Christopher Lee.

[Rhumsaa]

50 minutes ago, Twitch said:

I had him more like Scaramanga from The Man with the Golden Gun. As played by Christopher Lee.

compared to the book?

[Holte End]

1 hour ago, Twitch said:

I had him more like Scaramanga from The Man with the Golden Gun. As played by Christopher Lee.

I believe David can whistle, to Howard tunes.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Holte End

[Rhumsaa]

I note that Dr G was scathing on Twitter regarding Ashford's evidence to PAC, I've not listened myself - anyone here able to give a summary?

[the stinking enigma]

When was it? I had it in my mind it was yesterday but presumably the lack of reporting, they must be busy with other stuff i'd imagine.

[Rhumsaa]

53 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

When was it? I had it in my mind it was yesterday but presumably the lack of reporting, they must be busy with other stuff i'd imagine.

Yeah it was yesterday I saw the tweets so I assume it was yesterday

[Roger Mexico]

7 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

Yeah it was yesterday I saw the tweets so I assume it was yesterday

It was at 3.30 pm yesterday.  The PAC interviewed Magson separately first at 2.30 pm (presumably remotely) - the old police trick of questioning the suspects separately.  Ashford's evidence is here:

https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/listen/AgainFiles/pac210512a2.mp3

(It will take forever for Hansard to come out - Rachel Glover's session still hasn't been produced yet - not for that matter has April Tynwald which will take priority).

As you say Dr Glover was not impressed:

I haven't listened to the evidence as yet, though anyone who has listened open-jawed to media briefings when Ashford and science collide won't be surprised if confidently asserted nonsense featured heavily.

[Sheldon]

34 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

Yeah it was yesterday I saw the tweets...

Which can be neatly summarised as, "Ashford, WTF?"

No mention of any point-by-point refutation either.

[The Voice of Reason]

12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It was at 3.30 pm yesterday.  The PAC interviewed Magson separately first at 2.30 pm (presumably remotely) - the old police trick of questioning the suspects separately.  Ashford's evidence is here:

https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/listen/AgainFiles/pac210512a2.mp3

(It will take forever for Hansard to come out - Rachel Glover's session still hasn't been produced yet - not for that matter has April Tynwald which will take priority).

As you say Dr Glover was not impressed:

 

He doesn’t think he is a medic, scientist or expert. I’ve not listened to it all but on at least a couple of occasions he says he is not a scientist but a layman (or words to that effect)

[Annoymouse]

19 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I haven't listened to the evidence as yet, though anyone who has listened open-jawed to media briefings when Ashford and science collide won't be surprised if confidently asserted nonsense featured heavily.

Who else on island does actually understand Genomics in the same way that Dr Glover does?, short of hearing scientific evidence from someone else who works with Genomics, I can’t possibly see how anyone else can even try dismiss Dr Glovers claims, let alone attempt to reject what they believe is scientifically possible.

 

[Happier diner]

56 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Who else on island does actually understand Genomics in the same way that Dr Glover does?, 

 

No one probably. So what?

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

He doesn’t think he is a medic, scientist or expert. I’ve not listened to it all but on at least a couple of occasions he says he is not a scientist but a layman (or words to that effect)

But he pronounces on these things as if he is.  In a sense @rachomics is letting him off too easily because you don't need to be "a medic, scientist or expert" to get these things right, you just need to spend a little studying how things work in a particular area and asking a few questions of people who do know.  That's pretty much the definition of what his job as a Minister is.  And given that he was appearing before a Tynwald Committee you's have thought he would have the courtesy to get things right.

But the real problem is that that isn't how Ashford or most of the other Ministers see their jobs or how they are expected to behave by the civil service.  Instead they think they are there to repeat whatever they have been briefed to say, whether it makes any sense or not.  They are basically junior PR guys, there to do whatever they are told.  At most a sort of responsibility-shield for those who take the real decisions.  The fact that most are happy to take such a role in return for the perks, the self-importance and to be spared the effort of actually having to think, tells you something about them.

[Happier diner]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

.  Instead they think they are there to repeat whatever they have been briefed to say, whether it makes any sense or not.  They are basically junior PR guys, there to do whatever they are told.  At most a sort of responsibility-shield for those who take the real decisions.  The fact that most are happy to take such a role in return for the perks, the self-importance and to be spared the effort of actually having to think, tells you something about them.

Hasn't it always been that way? Its the way the Ministers work isn't it?  In Tynwald, when questioned, they regurgitate what they are told by their civil servants. The only other option would be for the Civil servants all be there. Its a bit rubbish and a bit silly but I can't see how it could be done any other way.

With the pandemic everyone has learned things about viruses, vaccines, disease control and even the benefits of, and how genomics work. That includes Ashford. He is entitled to a view even though he clearly knows very little about it. He would be a lemon of he just said he didn't know to every question

[Uhtred]

5 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

He would be a lemon of he just said he didn't know to every question

Indeed he would and the onus is on the questioners to seek responses to matters about which he can reasonably expect to provident cogent comment, not to ask him for a view on the current scientific thinking about the role of dark matter in the universe.

However, unless Dr. Glover's tweets are a genuine attempt to mislead (which I very much doubt) it would appear that DA has been only too happy to spout what seems to be factually incorrect, scientifically vacant, nonsense. As others have commented, DA has form for straying well off the beaten path of his knowledge. He appears to be cast in the mould of Quayle in also believing that he's capable of addressing topics cogently, but in a manner which, in reality, illustrates his ignorance, not his wisdom.

Self-awareness and an acknowledgement of where one's competence ends is a powerful tool. Many politicians lack it; Ashford is fast demonstrating that he is one such. We must hope that PAC identifies that fact swiftly.

[slinkydevil]

The guy has an MBE, leave him alone.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/david-ashford-mbe-shocked-stunned-and-surprised/