Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Kopek]

52 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

but that makes it even more important not to automatically copy everything that gets done in England

There are times when it is appropriate to rely on the depth of experience in the English CS, apart from not expending our energy to come to the same conclusion? Our borders may have put us in a unique position to lockdown but the general principal of restricting movement was set by others with said 'Depth of Experience'? In different circumstances,Ranson and Glover could have been part of that experience?

The experience does not have to be English, it could be Scandinavian, European or American but to ignore this, do our own research and come to the same conclusion is a waste of our meagre resources?

[Roger Mexico]

8 minutes ago, Kopek said:

The experience does not have to be English, it could be Scandinavian, European or American but to ignore this, do our own research and come to the same conclusion is a waste of our meagre resources?

Which is why I said "automatically".  The problem is that nothing else is even considered and any attempt, no matter how based on fact and reason, to modify things gets aggressively opposed by some in the civil service.

[Derek Flint]

There needs to be an evidence-based approach to whatever the island does, particularly because of the economies of scale. I suspect it might be slowly dawning in Government that the Isle of Man isn’t a global superpower and that cloth does indeed need cutting accordingly.

There were a number of UK strategies that came from UK policing that we adopted, with a simple contextual appendix, and policy notes where we couldn’t do part of it due to those scale issues. That way, it meant if we ever needed help then the incoming force would recognise what was in place and be able to rapidly integrate. Also, there was a ‘defense base’:  If there was an adverse outcome, there was a clear provenance from process that had already been pored over by UK lawyers. With a similar legal system, this provided a high degree of comfort.

its not rocket science because it doesn’t need to be rocket science.

[Declan]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:41 PM, Gladys said:

Pity the letter "served it's purpose" so quickly.  May have been quite relevant to this nonsense.  But, hey ho.

I made that point at the time.

On 11/24/2020 at 8:50 AM, Declan said:

What matters is this letter from an employee alleging poor staff morale isn't available internally either. It's not beyond the realms of possibility it could become relevant to future disciplinary or grievance cases we saw how dimly the Industrial Tribunal viewed Bus Vannin's cavalier approach to record keeping and processes.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Declan

[Declan]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:53 PM, FookADoodleDoo said:

 As for kicking something, does that include the livelihoods of innocent people who cannot help that they are associated/a relative of a Minister? If you can support such a creature who can be capable of such atrocities, then that says more about you than any of them. 

Did you read all that in an anonymous letter?

[Gladys]

11 minutes ago, Declan said:

I made that point at the time.

Indeed you did, Declan, as did many others.  The fact is the letter related to a personnel matter that may come back to bite them, it still had a lot of 'purpose' to fulfill.  Pretty sure at the time we asked what advice he had taken.  

[hissingsid]

I did suggest that Doctor Glover crawled back under the stone she crawled out of about thirty five thousand posts ago, it was clear she was screwed up yonks ago.

[Kopek]

😋

Sid, Sid, Sid. Rachel Glover cannot help the gender she was born as. It's all down to the Runes and Human reproductive system. However, she has attained a high degree of scientific knowledge despite being merely a Woman!

Can you not allow some leeway for her and Daphne C for their gender? Just those two for a start, other Women could follow when you feel more at ease with your position?

...and you a Christian!!!

Edited February 6, 2022 by Kopek

[Non-Believer]

10 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

I suspect it might be slowly dawning in Government that the Isle of Man isn’t a global superpower

This has been part of Govt culture since the mid-nineties and was promoted right up to the start of the previous administration; much policy has been conducted around this belief.

Global events and pressures have repeatedly shown it to be erroneous, yet it has still been clung to. The supertanker takes a long time to turn, however. In the meantime the facts are with us on the ground.

[code99]

1 hour ago, Kopek said:

😋

Sid, Sid, Sid. Rachel Glover cannot help the gender she was born as. It's all down to the Runes and Human reproductive system. However, she has attained a high degree of scientific knowledge despite being merely a Woman!

Can you not allow some leeway for her and Daphne C for their gender? Just those two for a start, other Women could follow when you feel more at ease with your position?

...and you a Christian!!!

(Most) Single-deity-based religions have reflected societal structures where men are in charge - this has been fundamentally unfair to women. Christianity is not an exception to this ‘convention’. Obviously, western democracies have come forwards in leaps and bounds since the days of Henry VIII and the beheading of his wives, but there is still a long way to go before misogyny and chauvinism is fully eradicated (from all religious, private and public spheres).

However, I do not believe that women who occupy high-profile roles in society should be spared from criticism, but the criticism levelled at them must be for what they do and say, and not be motivated by gender bias. Personally, I have a low opinion of both Hetty and Magson as I believe they performed poorly in their jobs. Unfortunately, it is still prevalent to apply different standards when 'discussing' women than ‘powerful’ men. E.g., DA was let off when he shredded letter(s), then mumbled some indecipherable elucidations at the PAC hearing, etc. Dr Glover is technically qualified and highly competent, and yet it was her and not DA who coped it. Hardly fair.      

[Augustus]

23 hours ago, Gladys said:

Not in reply to anything in particular, but the biggest indicator of a stupid person is that they think everyone else is more stupid than them. 

A clever person knows how much they know. A wise person knows how little they know.

[hissingsid]

It has nothing to do with gender if a man had made a maiden speech about removing an 80second prayer in the last government I would have named him, she was shot down then but now when things of much more import have to be sorted here we go again.   I criticise things male members of the Government do it is you that is making the gender a problem or do you think all the ladies who are MHKs are above criticism are they all delicate little flowers who must not be upset 🤣 as for Dr Glover I think by her actions she is unreliable at best and if she was a man she would still be unreliable.

[Happier diner]

5 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

It has nothing to do with gender if a man had made a maiden speech about removing an 80second prayer in the last government I would have named him, she was shot down then but now when things of much more import have to be sorted here we go again.   I criticise things male members of the Government do it is you that is making the gender a problem or do you think all the ladies who are MHKs are above criticism are they all delicate little flowers who must not be upset 🤣 as for Dr Glover I think by her actions she is unreliable at best and if she was a man she would still be unreliable.

I'm sticking up for you. I'm not sure why you are being accused of sexism just because you used the term 'she'. She is a 'she'. 

[code99]

22 hours ago, hissingsid said:

I did suggest that Doctor Glover crawled back under the stone she crawled out of about thirty five thousand posts ago, it was clear she was screwed up yonks ago.

IMHO, what you have said is nothing but a horribly offensive misogynistic tirade.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

IMHO, what you have said is nothing but a horribly offensive misogynistic tirade.

How do you work that out? Am I missing something? Sarcasm?