Vaccine- who will have it?

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

It’s across most news outlets but this is sky news, many countries saying same thing. Suppose if you don’t want to travel, go to pubs, restaurants, cafes, theatres etc then don’t have it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-people-who-refuse-to-get-vaccine-could-be-denied-entry-to-venues-minister-suggests-12147306

Banker, you see, this is where the power that be are crossing the line. The vaccine is to protect you. Not other people. Anyone under the age of 60 has little to worry from the virus. As some of us were discussing yesterday, uk health minister has indicated that there is no plan to vaccinate children. It could actually be dangerous to them. People who have tested positive don't need it. Protect the elderly and vulnerable, then let people's immune systems deal with the virus naturally. Very few will die

[Banker]

3 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

That'll be the end of those businesses in a jiffy.  A nonsense policy.

Not if they all do it which seems to be implications in many places 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

15 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Theres no way it will be mandatory. Too many legal implications should it go wrong, even in a whatever the name is for a negative placebo sense. Some people will experience side effects whether based in reality or not. 

It will be purely voluntary, though essentially you will have no choice but to have it if you want to live some sort of life.

I think once the vaccines start to roll out covid will simply become a footnote each year.  Just like flu deaths.  The world will largely return to normal.  

[Banker]

Just now, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

I think once the vaccines start to roll out covid will simply become a footnote each year.  Just like flu deaths.  The world will largely return to normal.  

Hopefully as it has caused worldwide disruption and economic ruin for what have been relatively few deaths particularly in younger populations 

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

Just now, Banker said:

Not if they all do it which seems to be implications in many places 

It's simply companies worried whilst government "advice and guidelines " remain so prevalent. 

Once all this nonsense dissipates (which it will) then that nonsense talk will disappear.

At the moment government won't remove the silly guidelines. The vaccine is the get out.  And companies won't go against government guidance and rules.  That'll have to disappear.  Guaranteed.

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, quilp said:

Exactly, and much more. I had to laugh when the interviewer suggested that being the minister in charge meant he'd "received more letters." I just found it all very questionable. Ashford's use of the rising inflection of speech at the end of every sentence always sounds suspect also.

Indeed. He must know all the PHE directives off by heart by now. Off piste is not his preferred method of travelling when questioned for more detail.

[Roger Mexico]

44 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Indeed. He must know all the PHE directives off by heart by now. Off piste is not his preferred method of travelling when questioned for more detail.

Yes, Ashford just keeps on repeating the same stuff, whether it made any sense the first time or not.  A lot of it's quite revealing, though possibly not in the way he intends.

For example he seems to believe that no one would take the test without being offered some form of incentive, which is an interesting insight into the way the Manx government mind works - they won't do anything unless you bribe them apparently.  The idea that people might have other motives (such as simply wanting to find out or for the greater good or for personal reasons) is clearly incomprehensible.

Of course in reality you can 'make' people take the test by all sorts of measures (not letting them out of isolation for longer for example) but that isn't the point here.  It's that they have decided that their way of doing things must be right and no evidence will be allowed to shift that.

[quilp]

Seems the majority here and Guernsey are content with our covid tactics...

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2020/12/01/other-islands-happier-with-covid-controls/

 

[Lxxx]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes, Ashford just keeps on repeating the same stuff, whether it made any sense the first time or not.  A lot of it's quite revealing, though possibly not in the way he intends.

For example he seems to believe that no one would take the test without being offered some form of incentive, which is an interesting insight into the way the Manx government mind works - they won't do anything unless you bribe them apparently.  The idea that people might have other motives (such as simply wanting to find out or for the greater good or for personal reasons) is clearly incomprehensible.

Of course in reality you can 'make' people take the test by all sorts of measures (not letting them out of isolation for longer for example) but that isn't the point here.  It's that they have decided that their way of doing things must be right and no evidence will be allowed to shift that.

They're not deciding there way is right as there isn't a right or wrong approach at the moment. 

My view is that Cannan and others have outlined internally that the island's finances took a large hit in the summer and they simply cannot afford another economic shock the likes of what we saw. If we test as few as possible we can keep maintaining the public perception that we are a low Covid island and thus we can keep the wheels of the economy turning. We can also maintain the steady inflow of people moving to the island and keep the population as high as we possibly can.

It's a sensible approach and one I agree with. 

[Banker]

Interesting question asked in Mannin line today by a retired gentleman, if he is vaccinated will he be able to freely travel to UK without quarantine on returning to IOM.

He wants to see his family and reasonably expected to have freedom of travel if vaccinated, perhaps Howie can respond?

[wrighty]

3 minutes ago, Banker said:

Interesting question asked in Mannin line today by a retired gentleman, if he is vaccinated will he be able to freely travel to UK without quarantine on returning to IOM.

He wants to see his family and reasonably expected to have freedom of travel if vaccinated, perhaps Howie can respond?

We don’t yet know if these 90%+ effective vaccines prevent transmission as well as disease. I’d guess that they do, but until proven I suspect Howard will say no. 

[thommo2010]

Just now, Banker said:

Interesting question asked in Mannin line today by a retired gentleman, if he is vaccinated will he be able to freely travel to UK without quarantine on returning to IOM.

He wants to see his family and reasonably expected to have freedom of travel if vaccinated, perhaps Howie can respond?

Once you're vaccinated why would you need to isolate? If you do have to isolate then what's the point of getting the vaccine?

[Albert Tatlock]

Wow! Could the 30% of the population that refuse the vaccine, finally put themselves all up for a Darwin award and finally get us out of the Elf and Safety responsibilities we're protecting them from?

One can only hope.

Tis true! Nature...always finds a way.

[Roger Mexico]

26 minutes ago, wrighty said:

We don’t yet know if these 90%+ effective vaccines prevent transmission as well as disease. I’d guess that they do, but until proven I suspect Howard will say no. 

There's not much evidence either way that the various vaccines prevent transmission rather than just stop more serious forms of the disease developing.  And given that we do know that asymptomatic patients can pass the virus on, it's not unlikely that those with very mild forms can do so too - though you would expect not as effectively as those seriously affected.

But even if transmission is stopped, there's no evidence 90% will be enough - a lot of those infected will still get into the population and pass it on to the unvaccinated.  And given that the full population is unlikely to be vaccinated for some time (or to a high enough percentage for herd immunity to be fully effective), it's still going to mean that there will be cases of Covid.

The truth is that we really don't have much idea of the real effectiveness of the vaccines (nor how they compare) until they are at use in the population.  The numbers in the samples of those who caught Covid were pretty small (around 100-ish) and under non-normal conditions for good ethical reasons.  It's hopeful so far, but there's not enough information for certainty.  The only thing the trials tell us with near-certainty is that the vaccines are safe, because that is tested on the whole sample of those treated, not just those who encountered Covid.

[Gladys]

MHRA approval has now been given for the Pfizer vaccine.