Vaccine- who will have it?

[Andy Onchan]

Is this the sign of things to come for travellers?

[TheTeapot]

57 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well they seem to have got round that by deciding not to vaccinate them.  If you look at their announcement of the start of the programme:

It's V-Day in the Isle of Man as the first person is vaccinated against Covid-19. Sandie Hannay a residential support worker in DHSC's Learning Disability service had the jab this morning in front of the Manx media - ahead of 900+ health & care staff from across the Island in this first week of our roll-out programme.

the only people they seem to be vaccinating are staff.  Now this goes against the JCVI advice on priority groups:

Even Ms Hannay should not qualify for priority as the residential home she works in is not for the elderly.  Nor really, national treasure though he is, should wrighty, though he would be pretty near the top of section 2 because of the urgency of much of his work and the age of many of his patients.

It's particularly wrong because what we know of the vaccine suggests it may be better at protecting those who get infected from serious harm rather than preventing spread.  So staff might still pass it on if they have had their jabs, even more of a reason to start with the vulnerable - the fatality rate can be over 25% in the over-90s.

Incidentally it's also not a good idea to vaccinate all staff at once in any case.  If some do suffer mild side-effects (which seems most common after the second jab and may just be an indication that the vaccine is working) then you don't want them all having to take the same day off because they feel a bit woozy.

So rather than protect the most vulnerable first, the DHSC seem to have decided to protect ... themselves.  What a surprise.  It's not a good look is it?

I completely disagree. The situation where doctors, nurses, cleaners, porters, anyone who works in a hospital and have been getting ill and in cases dying is absolutely terrible. Get them protected first, they're the most important. They can't look after you if they're already dead.

[dilligaf]

Maybe a little off topic, but watching the news just now, I couldn’t  help noticing that when Boris was speaking at a vaccination centre, the seal on his mask was so bad that his fringe blew upwards everytime he spoke.

[Carolinas]

* waves * Hello there! New poster here.

There seem to be a lot of well-informed/medical bods on here so I was wondering if you knew the answer to this. The Gov is putting out posts on Facebook saying hurray, we have vaccinated 315 people today - but I thought the trays of Pfizer vaccine each did 975 jabs and had to be used within a few hours of defrosting? Are they managing to extract and use a few vials per day or are the remaining 660 jabs going to waste?

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, Carolinas said:

* waves * Hello there! New poster here.

There seem to be a lot of well-informed/medical bods on here so I was wondering if you knew the answer to this. The Gov is putting out posts on Facebook saying hurray, we have vaccinated 315 people today - but I thought the trays of Pfizer vaccine each did 975 jabs and had to be used within a few hours of defrosting? Are they managing to extract and use a few vials per day or are the remaining 660 jabs going to waste?

Once unfrozen  it has to be refrigerated and used within 5 days.

[wrighty]

2 minutes ago, Carolinas said:

* waves * Hello there! New poster here.

There seem to be a lot of well-informed/medical bods on here so I was wondering if you knew the answer to this. The Gov is putting out posts on Facebook saying hurray, we have vaccinated 315 people today - but I thought the trays of Pfizer vaccine each did 975 jabs and had to be used within a few hours of defrosting? Are they managing to extract and use a few vials per day or are the remaining 660 jabs going to waste?

Safe in the fridge for a few days, but can’t be refrozen or transported. 

[Carolinas]

Ah, thank you! (I was fretting about that, having previously been a civil servant and being well aware of how wrong administration can go sometimes!)

[jaymann]

Just now, Carolinas said:

Ah, thank you! (I was fretting about that, having previously been a civil servant and being well aware of how wrong administration can go sometimes!)

With views like that, you're in good company here!

[Carolinas]

Yes, I thought I would be!

 

[jaymann]

55 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Is this the sign of things to come for travellers?

Not according to our leadership. But I firmly believe a blockchain driven decentralised passport of some description will be the future of travel for the foreseeable.

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, jaymann said:

With views like that, you're in good company here!

Yeah, but she also described us as well informed. This is the notoriously ill-informed manx forums, as described by Geoff Corkish.

[Uhtred]

23 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Maybe a little off topic, but watching the news just now, I couldn’t  help noticing that when Boris was speaking at a vaccination centre, the seal on his mask was so bad that his fringe blew upwards everytime he spoke.

Well Dilli - firstly, 10/10 for observation. I’m  sure we will all be astonished to learn that Johnson appears to be incompetent. None of us would have expected that. 

[Apple]

1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

s there any point protecting all the elderly, if the medical staff are all sick. Keep the carers alive first surely. The healthy over 80’s won’t be able to look after the doctors, nurses and carers. 

Not everyone in hospital is caring for covid patients. There should be clear lines of demarcation between the covid and non covid areas and staff should have been segregated to those different areas to avoid cross infection risks etc.

There are many clinical staff in the community and GP practices who will probably not be considered front line staff who could be called upon if the need arises.

I am sure good planning by those that matter have carefully considered the risks associated with this programme and have  a good risk management plan in place. 😁

[Itsmeee]

5 hours ago, John Wright said:

More a case of GDPR

 

5 hours ago, wrighty said:

Fair point. I’ll inform some relevant people. 

Just send it to our esteemed DHSC Minister and he can bin it in line with GDPR best practice 

[BenFairfax]

3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

...the only people they seem to be vaccinating are staff.  Now this goes against the JCVI advice on priority groups:

Not really against this and just how it goes. If work in toothpaste factor you get first dibs on toothpaste, ditto people in healthcare. But strategically, with UK listing 1.6M staff, I assume we have around 1,600 healthcare staff here. If vaccinate all these straight off bat, then who will fill in for inevitable people who fail to turn up to their appointment. I would keep say 10-20 NHS staff on standby each day to pop down each day to take any jabs people fail to turn up for to previous loss.  

3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

the fatality rate can be over 25% in the over-90s.

The JVCI schema does not optimize mortality risk to any granularity. There will be blood cancer patients at 40% mortality risk (bucket (4)) who will be flying over to Liverpool for regular treatment. There life expectancy may be in single digits but may well by longer than typical over-90 year old. Also JVCI and NICE not consistent in that NICE considered number of quality additional years of life to maximise as benefit to optimize (typically against cost).

What worries me are people in general population who will develop say a cancer or autoimmune condition, and prior to formal diagnosis (which can take 2+ years) are infected with COVID. Very possible OAPs all fly off to Spain in Summer and return to infect such people (for example their Tesco delivery guy) who will have no protection at that point in time.