Banker Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, trmpton said: You are probably right. So why not utilise the retired nurses who volunteered to help with the vaccine (when ashford asked for volunteers)? iI know several who could help but aren’t being used. One was contacted and is directing traffic at the airport when she could be indoors doing jabs and lettering someone without that experience manage the traffic? These are the questions that need asking at press conference not everyone asking the same questions eg Steam packet, lockdown etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 48 minutes ago, Apple said: Community Nurses don't report to Ashford - it's their Managers who report to him via the Executive Team. There is an acute shortage of nursing staff as posted earlier in another thread. See the bigger picture. Point taken, but ultimately the information passed to Ashford has come from the nurses who actually deliver the injections albeit via their managers and the Executive Team. I don't suppose that either the managers or the Executive Team are actually out in peoples houses! I understand the bigger picture, but the shortage of nurses doesn't mean that the Community Nurses who are working are making stuff up about the people they see to report back to their managers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Newbie said: Point taken, but ultimately the information passed to Ashford has come from the nurses who actually deliver the injections albeit via their managers and the Executive Team. The truth lies in the number of people who have been reported. It may only be one or even two but it means nothing without the numbers. Meanwhile tired staff are being pulled from pillar to post trying to keep up with the targets set politically. Wards at Nobles were reviewed to set safety standards and from my information it seems that those levels are not being maintained. We need to know why. Before we start out on integrated care. No point if there is not enough qualified people to deliver it. Or is that the purpose ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 48 minutes ago, Apple said: The truth lies in the number of people who have been reported. It may only be one or even two but it means nothing without the numbers. Meanwhile tired staff are being pulled from pillar to post trying to keep up with the targets set politically. Wards at Nobles were reviewed to set safety standards and from my information it seems that those levels are not being maintained. We need to know why. Before we start out on integrated care. No point if there is not enough qualified people to deliver it. Or is that the purpose ? I agree with you about the staffing problems, but I also feel that if front line staff are reporting a problem that it should be taken at face value rather than assuming that they have some sort of agenda. It is easy to say it means nothing without numbers, but I don't believe that the staff would be reporting it at all unless they thought it was significant. It is a common management strategy in the NHS to say 'We need numbers", and then when the numbers are provided "We need to validate the numbers", and then when they re validated "We need to benchmark", then "We need to evaluate our options", then "We need an impact assessment" - meanwhile lots of trees are chopped down but nothing changes. It got progressively worse over my 40 years working in the health service. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 42 minutes ago, Newbie said: I agree with you about the staffing problems, but I also feel that if front line staff are reporting a problem that it should be taken at face value rather than assuming that they have some sort of agenda. It is easy to say it means nothing without numbers, but I don't believe that the staff would be reporting it at all unless they thought it was significant. It is a common management strategy in the NHS to say 'We need numbers", and then when the numbers are provided "We need to validate the numbers", and then when they re validated "We need to benchmark", then "We need to evaluate our options", then "We need an impact assessment" - meanwhile lots of trees are chopped down but nothing changes. It got progressively worse over my 40 years working in the health service. Too many American style management bullshit speak is the problem in a lot of organizations including healthcare, just need Howie & Ashie to start spouting Blue Sky thinking & we need to get all our ducks in a row before changing borders policy!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, Banker said: Too many American style management bullshit speak is the problem in a lot of organizations including healthcare, just need Howie & Ashie to start spouting Blue Sky thinking & we need to get all our ducks in a row before changing borders policy!!! Pushing the envelope there, Banker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Newbie said: I agree with you about the staffing problems, but I also feel that if front line staff are reporting a problem that it should be taken at face value rather than assuming that they have some sort of agenda. But we don't know if they are really reporting a problem or just making the odd casual remark which have got amplified as they went up the hierarchy. Or whether it was all in an anonymous letter that has since been shredded. What is certain is that they won't be making formal assessments of these people as to what they can and can't do - just assuming their capabilities from a fairly short contact. It will be an informed guess - but still a guess. And all of them should have been over 75, so some mobility restriction isn't unlikely. Thinking about it, I also wonder if there is some circular reasoning going on here. Some of those they are vaccinating will be people the community nurses have not normally been dealing with as vulnerable and they may be assuming from that that they aren't: "If we don't know about it's not a problem". And the managers may also be worrying that there may be unmet need out there which contact for vaccination may encourage to think about other services. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: But we don't know if they are really reporting a problem or just making the odd casual remark which have got amplified as they went up the hierarchy. Or whether it was all in an anonymous letter that has since been shredded. What is certain is that they won't be making formal assessments of these people as to what they can and can't do - just assuming their capabilities from a fairly short contact. It will be an informed guess - but still a guess. And all of them should have been over 75, so some mobility restriction isn't unlikely. Thinking about it, I also wonder if there is some circular reasoning going on here. Some of those they are vaccinating will be people the community nurses have not normally been dealing with as vulnerable and they may be assuming from that that they aren't: "If we don't know about it's not a problem". And the managers may also be worrying that there may be unmet need out there which contact for vaccination may encourage to think about other services. Nail head interface! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: But we don't know if they are really reporting a problem or just making the odd casual remark which have got amplified as they went up the hierarchy. Or whether it was all in an anonymous letter that has since been shredded. What is certain is that they won't be making formal assessments of these people as to what they can and can't do - just assuming their capabilities from a fairly short contact. It will be an informed guess - but still a guess. And all of them should have been over 75, so some mobility restriction isn't unlikely. Thinking about it, I also wonder if there is some circular reasoning going on here. Some of those they are vaccinating will be people the community nurses have not normally been dealing with as vulnerable and they may be assuming from that that they aren't: "If we don't know about it's not a problem". And the managers may also be worrying that there may be unmet need out there which contact for vaccination may encourage to think about other services. We will have to agree to differ. The wording of the statement made by DHSC suggests it is more than one or two casual remarks. To quote: The community vaccination team is working hard to vaccinate housebound residents Island-wide. However they are finding that a large proportion of patients requesting a home visit are not genuinely housebound – and this is impacting the wider programme Perhaps I have greater faith than you, in the professionalism and skills of the Community Nurses who spend their working lives visiting people in their homes day after day. It is unrealistic (especially at this time) to expect them to undertake a 'formal assessment' of any patient who they believe isn't housebound, when all they are trying to do is vaccinate someone. It is also commonly the case that the views of frontline care staff are often ignored in just this way, by telling them that they haven't carried out the proper assessments, or gathered the data in the exact way required, (or any number of other ways to allow people to bury their heads in the sand), leaving staff feeling undervalued and unsupported. Personally, that is not how I want our frontline staff to feel at this time. In fairness to the Community Nursing management and David Ashford, they haven't done that on this occasion. They have received some information, and have done what they can to try to address a problem identified by the people doing the actual work. Edited February 22, 2021 by Newbie typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Newbie said: The community vaccination team is working hard to vaccinate housebound residents Island-wide. Everyone is working hard. Some clinical staff are going above and beyond. It's not just nurses. 3 hours ago, Newbie said: It is also commonly the case that the views of frontline care staff are often ignored in just this way, Exactly. Do you think that has changed recently ? Why is that ? 3 hours ago, Newbie said: .........leaving staff feeling undervalued and unsupported. Personally, that is not how I want our frontline staff to feel at this time. Totally agree. That is exactly how it should be. But listening to both nursing staff and medical staff over the weekend some do feel that way most of the time. I never wanted to hear Nobles maligned like I have done recently. There seems to be something missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Still can’t understand why we’re not using GP surgery to vaccinate similar to flu vaccinations roll out and the retired nurses/ doctors who volunteered which would take pressure off nursing staff Edited February 22, 2021 by Banker 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, Apple said: Everyone is working hard. Some clinical staff are going above and beyond. It's not just nurses. Fair comment, but the bit you are quoting was from the press release by DHSC referring specifically to vaccinating people in their own homes 37 minutes ago, Apple said: Exactly. Do you think that has changed recently ? Why is that ? Only insofar as in this particular case, the information from Community Nurses was passed up the chain of command and resulted in David Ashford's comments at the press briefing and a press release from DHSC, so on this occasion they appear to have listened to the concerns of frontline staff. It would be nice to think that it might signal a change in management style within the DHSC, but I am not holding my breath! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Can anyone tell me if there is a test to tell if you have already had Covid-19? Edited February 22, 2021 by Barlow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Barlow said: Can anyone tell me if there is a test to tell if you have already had Covid-19? I would like that before having a vaccination Yes there is. It's an antibody test but I'm not sure how reliable the test is. ETA: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/antibody-test-to-check-if-youve-had-coronavirus/ Edited February 22, 2021 by Andy Onchan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, Barlow said: Can anyone tell me if there is a test to tell if you have already had Covid-19? I would like that before having a vaccination Why? Did you have antibody tests before you had any of your previous vaccinations and boosters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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