Vaccine- who will have it?

[Newbie]

38 minutes ago, Banker said:

Well I think we should have stuck to laid down programme for priority which means a lot more over 80s should have been vaccinated, most aren’t getting done until mid February.

Most jurisdictions are well ahead with vaccinations for over 80s, Jersey starting home visits today, with c70% over 80s done.

https://www.channel103.com/news/jersey-news/over-80s-home-visit-vaccines-start/

I agree that the rate of roll out to over 80's is too slow, but the laid down programme on the Government website just says that they will start with Over 80's, Care Home staff, and Health and Care workers. It doesn't actually distinguish between any of those groups, so I suppose they could say they are following that. Similarly, the most recent information from JCVI advises what should be considered when rolling out the vaccine, and mentions age, care home workers and frontline healthcare staff, but isn't explicit about which should take priority. 

[Happier diner]

12 hours ago, piebaps said:

Same old MF behaviour.

Government are shit wah wah wah.

Civil Servants are all wankers wah wah wah

Its more reliable than a Volkswagen

Ha Ha . Yes. For the record though my post was just a joke. https://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66408-vaccine-who-will-have-it/&do=findComment&comment=1484803

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Happier diner

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Newbie said:

The DHSC employs about 3,500 people[...] total of 3,200 frontline care staff may not be far off the mark.

Whether you feel that they should be vaccinated ahead of over 80's is another matter. I know several people over 80 who say that it is correct that care workers get vaccinated first.

But that doesn't mean it's the right policy.  The death rate from Covid for the over-80s and especially the over-90s is pretty horrific and that's clearly where the protection should go first.  Vaccinating their carers may be less helpful though, because we don't know if that prevents them from spreading the disease if they contract it.  So if they catch it they may still have to isolate and be taken away from their work.

In fact it could make things worse because all it could do is to suppress symptoms and so mean that infected health workers are dealing with the vulnerable for longer.  It's also possible that it could lead to a less rigorous use of PPE because workers feel safer.

[Roger Mexico]

34 minutes ago, Newbie said:

Similarly, the most recent information from JCVI advises what should be considered when rolling out the vaccine, and mentions age, care home workers and frontline healthcare staff, but isn't explicit about which should take priority. 

That's not true I'm afraid.  It's still pretty explicit:

Phase 1 – direct prevention of mortality and supporting the NHS and social care system

JCVI advises that the first priorities for the COVID-19 vaccination programme should be the prevention of mortality and the maintenance of the health and social care systems. As the risk of mortality from COVID-19 increases with age, prioritisation is primarily based on age. The order of priority for each group in the population corresponds with data on the number of individuals who would need to be vaccinated to prevent one death, estimated from UK data obtained from March to June 2020 (see reference 3):

1. residents in a care home for older adults and their carers

2. all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers

3. all those 75 years of age and over

4. all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals[footnote 1]

5. all those 65 years of age and over

The DHSC have clearly prioritised their own staff (including non-frontline) and I don't think that many private care home staff were included in that.  They are also using the Oxford vaccine on care home residents, even though it may be less effective than the Pfizer one.

[John Wright]

We’ve spent 1000+ pages criticising the IOM approach, saying they should do things differently, comparing us to other places.

Actually the government, public health and front line health workers have done a sterling job. We had 6 months of normality.

We had a small blip, the entry rules have tightened, there’s been a very short circuit breaker. We will probably be back on track.

Im fed up of all the negativity on here. The vaccination plan is always going to be a compromise, like lockdown, borders, testing. But it looks to me that they’ve actually tailored it to our actual situation, not that in UK, or anywhere else.

My only current beef is poor communication and the over engineering of the hubs. 

Maybe I’m feeling a little upset because I’ve just binge watched Ch4 Russel Davies It’s  a Sin.  But honestly, some of you, at both extremes of the argument need to get a grip and shut up, and be thankful how well they’re dealing with something totally unknown 12 months ago. Something that changes daily and weekly. 

[piebaps]

19 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's not true I'm afraid.  It's still pretty explicit:

Phase 1 – direct prevention of mortality and supporting the NHS and social care system

JCVI advises that the first priorities for the COVID-19 vaccination programme should be the prevention of mortality and the maintenance of the health and social care systems. As the risk of mortality from COVID-19 increases with age, prioritisation is primarily based on age. The order of priority for each group in the population corresponds with data on the number of individuals who would need to be vaccinated to prevent one death, estimated from UK data obtained from March to June 2020 (see reference 3):

1. residents in a care home for older adults and their carers

2. all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers

3. all those 75 years of age and over

4. all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals[footnote 1]

5. all those 65 years of age and over

The DHSC have clearly prioritised their own staff (including non-frontline) and I don't think that many private care home staff were included in that.  They are also using the Oxford vaccine on care home residents, even though it may be less effective than the Pfizer one.

As usual Roger, your apparent hatred of Government is colouring your message. 

We know that the logistics around pfizer mean that taking it to care homes is tricky and the "Oxford less effective" is basically an allegation that they're attempting to kill off the old folks. Get a grip, you're becoming a proper Karen.

"the first priorities for the COVID-19 vaccination programme should be the prevention of mortality and the maintenance of the health and social care systems".

 

They're doing exactly that. Take the blinkers off.

Edited January 23, 2021 by piebaps

[Newbie]

19 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's not true I'm afraid.  It's still pretty explicit

Fair enough, but it doesn't prioritise over 80's ahead of front line care workers, which is the context of my previous comments. The Oxford Vaccine is being used in Care Home residents because of the logistical issues of using the Pfizer vaccine for people who are not mobile. They have been the first to receive the Oxford vaccine.

[forestboy]

17 minutes ago, John Wright said:

We’ve spent 1000+ pages criticising the IOM approach, saying they should do things differently, comparing us to other places.

Actually the government, public health and front line health workers have done a sterling job. We had 6 months of normality.

We had a small blip, the entry rules have tightened, there’s been a very short circuit breaker. We will probably be back on track.

Im fed up of all the negativity on here. The vaccination plan is always going to be a compromise, like lockdown, borders, testing. But it looks to me that they’ve actually tailored it to our actual situation, not that in UK, or anywhere else.

My only current beef is poor communication and the over engineering of the hubs. 

Maybe I’m feeling a little upset because I’ve just binge watched Ch4 Russel Davies It’s  a Sin.  But honestly, some of you, at both extremes of the argument need to get a grip and shut up, and be thankful how well they’re dealing with something totally unknown 12 months ago. Something that changes daily and weekly. 

+1

[Roger Mexico]

7 minutes ago, piebaps said:

As usual Roger, your apparent hatred of Government is colouring your message. 

We know that the logistics around pfizer mean that taking it to care homes is tricky and the "Oxford less effective" is basically an allegation that they're attempting to kill off the old folks.

As usual your adoration of the government is confusing any criticism, no matter how evidenced, with hatred.    And of course doing this makes it easy for them to ignore any criticism and continue in the belief that every decision they make is impeccable and cannot be challenged.  I believe it's called 'enabling'.

Only yesterday I linked to the protocols from the Scottish Government for using the Pfizer vaccine in care homes, so it's certainly possible and if they had started when they first received the vaccine, every resident could have received both doses by now.

Equating being given second best to someone trying to kill you is a rather eccentric take.  Maybe it explains civil service spending policy - if they don't get the most expensive option, they literally think that someone is trying to kill them.

But I do have concerns about the Oxford virus and the levels of its effectiveness (and the way they got adjusted up).  It's still pretty high and, like all the approved vaccines, I have no concerns about its safety, but there are some queries.

[Apple]

The communication has been (typically) poor. There is a difference between being told what is happening and to actually understand why decisions have been made. Sometimes there has been a degree of confusion and sometimes conflicting information.

Front line health and care staff do a very good job and have done that for many years. 

The one thing that counts, and I think it was mentioned last night, is about the openness and accountability and the right to challenge and question by the public about how, when and why some decisions are being made.  If that can not happen, if people who do it are criticised or shut down, then a major part of democracy is silenced.

What does seem to come across is that people are tired, frustrated and impatient to a degree that is reflective of the restrictions, each with our own reasons to be cantankerous. However, sometimes posting on here can be very cathartic I find.   Stops me kicking the cat anyway.

[Boris Johnson]

On TV this morning they were in a "small" hospital in London. Before the pandemic it had 6 ICU beds, now it has over 100 IIRC, maybe over 40, in any event a huge increase.

Why are we not building a new "Covid" wing at the hospital and staffing it as soon as staff become available? By the time it is built, staff may not be so hard to get.

Benefits of that I see:

1) If we get a Covid breakout on the island we have the ventilators to do the very best job.

2) The extra staff taken on when not staffing the Covid beds could assist in getting our waiting lists down to something that a first world nation should have and add to the quality of the service here.

3) A good selling point for prospective HNWIs and businesses thinking of coming here.

4) Stimulus work for the construction industry. 

[John Wright]

12 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

On TV this morning they were in a "small" hospital in London. Before the pandemic it had 6 ICU beds, now it has over 100 IIRC, maybe over 40, in any event a huge increase.

Why are we not building a new "Covid" wing at the hospital and staffing it as soon as staff become available? By the time it is built, staff may not be so hard to get.

Benefits of that I see:

1) If we get a Covid breakout on the island we have the ventilators to do the very best job.

2) The extra staff taken on when not staffing the Covid beds could assist in getting our waiting lists down to something that a first world nation should have and add to the quality of the service here.

3) A good selling point for prospective HNWIs and businesses thinking of coming here.

4) Stimulus work for the construction industry. 

We have an isolation/Covid unit, in addition to ICU. It’s the ward20/Newlands building. We tripled the number of beds way back last April May. We don’t need a new wing. We’ve got plenty of respirators, for icu and surgery ( that can be repurposed ) and Rob Vine and new acquisitions.

1. already been there, done that, ticked off.

2. apart from the fact we can’t attract, recruit and retain full time permanent staff in normal times, the availability now, in time of world wide demand, and new visa rules ( wage related ) isn’t enough.

3. mmmmm? Really

4. we’d have to bring the workers in. That’s a whole other tangled web. Vipers nest even.

[Boris Johnson]

34 minutes ago, John Wright said:

We have an isolation/Covid unit, in addition to ICU. It’s the ward20/Newlands building. We tripled the number of beds way back last April May. We don’t need a new wing. We’ve got plenty of respirators, for icu and surgery ( that can be repurposed ) and Rob Vine and new acquisitions.

1. already been there, done that, ticked off.

2. apart from the fact we can’t attract, recruit and retain full time permanent staff in normal times, the availability now, in time of world wide demand, and new visa rules ( wage related ) isn’t enough.

3. mmmmm? Really

4. we’d have to bring the workers in. That’s a whole other tangled web. Vipers nest even.

I know better than to get into an argument with someone who argues for a living so we will just have to disagree.....:-)

[Banker]

IOM must have got another batch of Oxford vaccine as my Mum got a phone call this morning to say she could have vaccination at airport on Friday morning. She hasn’t had any of the forms of consent etc but they said don’t worry they’re in the post.

She only had initial letter Monday and when she called 111 they said she would get appointments in due course for late February. Looks like they may be getting a move on so not sure if they’ve been instructed to move more quickly or just extra doses arrived.

[Banker]

Reports from CNN on vaccinations passport with some countries already open to those who have them.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/vaccine-passports-summer-2021/index.html