Banker Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: You may be getting the two vaccines mixed up. Cambon was referring to the Pfizer one and the current WHO guidelines (download) say the doses should be 21-28 days apart[1]. In extreme circumstances governments may decide that the gap can be increased to up to 42 days, but care must be taken that this doesn't lead to second doses being missed. This reflects the gaps that were used in the trials which were 18-42 days. [1] The exactly 21 days thing was a typical piece of Ashford magical thinking. So we could be giving both vaccines at 6 weeks doses in line with JCVI & WHO advice but Ashie chooses his own timeline. I hope there’s questions on this tomorrow & not just a Howie self congratulatory conference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryFuchwit Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, Banker said: So we could be giving both vaccines at 6 weeks doses in line with JCVI & WHO advice but Ashie chooses his own timeline. I hope there’s questions on this tomorrow & not just a Howie self congratulatory conference No. That's incorrect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Banker said: So we could be giving both vaccines at 6 weeks doses in line with JCVI & WHO advice If you actually read the guidelines I linked to, you would see that they only apply to "a number of countries which face exceptional circumstances of vaccine supply constraints combined with a high disease burden". Neither of which apply here. I made no comment on the AZ vaccine. Edited February 11, 2021 by Roger Mexico Missing word 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 Hope Howie is gearing up for vaccine passports as UK & others are 5:41 Vaccine and testing certificates to be discussed by ministers tomorrow Ministers will tomorrow discuss a Cabinet Office proposal to introduce vaccine and testing certificates for when international travel is allowed again, our political reporter Aubrey Allegretti exclusively reports. Responsibilities have already been divided up between government departments to look at the idea. If approved, the Department for Transport will be told to draw up plans for a certificate infrastructure. And the NHS will be told to prepare to let people access their vaccine status when preparing for international travel. "Formal engagement" with other countries and international organisations will also begin, led by the Cabinet Office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 27 minutes ago, Banker said: So we could be giving both vaccines at 6 weeks doses in line with JCVI & WHO advice but Ashie chooses his own timeline. I hope there’s questions on this tomorrow & not just a Howie self congratulatory conference Why bother? At the moment, we are following manufacturers recommended dosage. If we went to six weeks, it would not speed things up because once you got to six weeks, you would have the backlog of second jabs to start to catch up on. Besides, the indemnity insurance requires that manufacturers dosage is followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cambon said: Why bother? At the moment, we are following manufacturers recommended dosage. If we went to six weeks, it would not speed things up because once you got to six weeks, you would have the backlog of second jabs to start to catch up on. Besides, the indemnity insurance requires that manufacturers dosage is followed. No other health authority is bothering about this indemnity insurance as none following 3 weeks dosage so wondering if it’s something else Ashie dreamed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryFuchwit Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 18 minutes ago, Banker said: No other health authority is bothering about this indemnity insurance as none following 3 weeks dosage so wondering if it’s something else Ashie dreamed up No. It's something you are dreaming up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 22 minutes ago, Banker said: No other health authority is bothering about this indemnity insurance as none following 3 weeks dosage so wondering if it’s something else Ashie dreamed up Hospitals in the UK, and staff, have what is called Crown Indemnity. That means the tax payer pays if there’s a claim. In effect that means it comes out of patient budgets. There isn’t the same relationship between UK government and the Manx Government/NHS. We are using a vaccination on a UK temporary licence/provisional approval, ordered by the UK, supplied to us by the UK. Its essential to have the UK indemnity. Our situation is different to the CI, also. I don’t know what their arrangements are. For instance, if vaccination goes seriously wrong there is a UK vaccine compensation scheme. Because of the historic close reciprocal arrangement IOM is included in the scheme. IOM NHS has a UK indemnity. CI don’t. Its not insurance. It’s a tax payer guarantee to reimburse. It acts, in effect, as insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 35 minutes ago, Cambon said: Why bother? At the moment, we are following manufacturers recommended dosage. If we went to six weeks, it would not speed things up because once you got to six weeks, you would have the backlog of second jabs to start to catch up on. Besides, the indemnity insurance requires that manufacturers dosage is followed. What indemnity insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanxpilot Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 34 minutes ago, Cambon said: Besides, the indemnity insurance requires that manufacturers dosage is followed. At a presser a couple of weeks back, Mr Ashford explicitly said the IOM was continuing with the three and four week gaps because a majority of our clinicians thought that it was the best way to proceed. The point he made previously about the indemnity requiring strict adherence to the recommended dosing regimen seems to have been put to one side, or maybe shredded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, John Wright said: What indemnity insurance? As you just described above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I know rarely do links get followed on this forum but I thought I'd post these two for info on results from Israel regarding the apparent successes that country has had with vaccine trials. For anyone interested... https://www.timesofisrael.com/hmo-sees-only-544-covid-infections-among-523000-fully-vaccinated-israelis/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/landmark-israeli-study-suggests-covid-patients-stay-immune-after-antibodies-fade/ Two very short news releases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 21 minutes ago, Cambon said: As you just described above. It’s not insurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 hour ago, John Wright said: Hospitals in the UK, and staff, have what is called Crown Indemnity. That means the tax payer pays if there’s a claim. In effect that means it comes out of patient budgets. There isn’t the same relationship between UK government and the Manx Government/NHS. We are using a vaccination on a UK temporary licence/provisional approval, ordered by the UK, supplied to us by the UK. Its essential to have the UK indemnity. Our situation is different to the CI, also. I don’t know what their arrangements are. For instance, if vaccination goes seriously wrong there is a UK vaccine compensation scheme. Because of the historic close reciprocal arrangement IOM is included in the scheme. IOM NHS has a UK indemnity. CI don’t. Its not insurance. It’s a tax payer guarantee to reimburse. It acts, in effect, as insurance. Why would the UK Indemnify us if we’re not following what the UK JCVI & now WHO recommends. Surely we should be following UK to be covered. Also CI are covered by same indemnity as Ashie said they didn’t wait for paperwork and analyse it like us, they just cracked on which is why we started 3 weeks after them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Banker said: Why would the UK Indemnify us if we’re not following what the UK JCVI & now WHO recommends. Surely we should be following UK to be covered. Also CI are covered by same indemnity as Ashie said they didn’t wait for paperwork and analyse it like us, they just cracked on which is why we started 3 weeks after them I wish you’d read what I’ve written before going off on one. The CI indemnity will be different, functionally, because of the different pre existing legislative relationship about vaccines. We have one. They don’t. The vaccination dose interval has nothing to do with it. Remember, out of 200+ different jurisdictions there’s only 1 ( well 4 ) doing 12 days. Im still not sure having read, and re read, the WHO statement and reports, that it is actually recommending a 6 or 12 week interval. Its the problem of this being pushed through at speed. Everyone reads something about a test result and jumps. You know, SA no AZ, Germany & France no AZ for over 65’s. And so on. They’re politically driven. Not science based. And our situation doesn’t have the same political imperatives as the UK. Nor that of Jersey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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