Vaccine- who will have it?

[Happier diner]

26 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Can anyone tell me if there is a test to tell if you have already had Covid-19? I would like that before having a vaccination

 

It would cost more numerous times to even try to tell you this. Like JW says, what would be the benefit. Easy and much cheaper to just jab you. Even if you had had it previously, the Jab serves as a booster to your immune system regardless.

[Apple]

2 hours ago, Newbie said:

Only insofar as in this particular case, the information from Community Nurses was passed up the chain of command and resulted in David Ashford's comments at the press briefing and a press release from DHSC, so on this occasion they appear to have listened to the concerns of frontline staff. It would be nice to think that it might signal a change in management style within the DHSC, but I am not holding my breath!

Neither am I. 

Which community nurses are doing the assessments and vaccinations. The lines between qualified nurses, health care assistants, special trained assistants etc means that you can never be sure who is who nowadays.

Or even what their qualifications actually are.

Oh well, just have to trust DA I guess. 

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

Still can’t understand why we’re not using GP surgery to vaccinate similar to flu vaccinations roll out and the retired nurses/ doctors who volunteered which would take pressure off nursing staff 

I thought they had specific staff to do this and it wasn't putting pressure on nursing staff.  Not necessarily true but I am sure Ashford said this. he said the only thing limiting progress was availability of vaccine.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

31 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Can anyone tell me if there is a test to tell if you have already had Covid-19? I would like that before having a vaccination

 

Generally speaking, the antibodies for Covid stick around for 6 months or so. So after that, you can't tell.

Long-term immunity is an unknown, but vaccines typically produce a longer-lasting immune response than infection.

There's no contraindications for previous COVID infection and having the vaccine. If there were, people would've found out by now.

[Roger Mexico]

5 hours ago, Newbie said:

We will have to agree to differ. The wording of the statement made by DHSC suggests it is more than one or two casual remarks. To quote:

The community vaccination team is working hard to vaccinate housebound residents Island-wide.

However they are finding that a large proportion of patients requesting a home visit are not genuinely housebound – and this is impacting the wider programme

Perhaps I have greater faith than you, in the professionalism and skills of the Community Nurses who spend their working lives visiting people in their homes day after day. It is unrealistic (especially at this time) to expect them to undertake a 'formal assessment' of any patient who they believe isn't housebound, when all they are trying to do is vaccinate someone.

You've rather missed my original point, which was there is a big gap between being 'housebound' and being able to spend most of the day taking two or three buses to get down to the Airport, hang around waiting to be vaccinated and then catch another two or three buses to get back.   That requires the sort of sustained energy that a lot of the elderly don't now have, not to mention the worry of trying to work out what the bus timetables mean and if they will actually appear. A lot simply won't feel up to the effort.

Of course if the Manx government had a fleet of minibuses they would be able to take such people door to door but unfortunately that's not possible.

You also missed my point that, while I accepted that there wasn't time to make a full assessment, by the same token the visiting vaccinators wouldn't know the true capabilities of those they judged to be mobile.  A best they can make an informed guess.

I actually suspect that the Community Nurses are really saying "These people are OK to get to their GPs - why can't they get vaccinated there, just like they are for flu?".   The honest answer would be that they don't want to pay them for it when they'd rather spend the money employing more managers, so they'll probably claim they have the wrong colour skirting boards.  And then issue a press release blaming the customers, just like every incompetently run business does.

 

[Barlow]

50 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Why? Did you have antibody tests before you had any of your previous vaccinations and boosters?

 

38 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

It would cost more numerous times to even try to tell you this. Like JW says, what would be the benefit. Easy and much cheaper to just jab you. Even if you had had it previously, the Jab serves as a booster to your immune system regardless.

 

Why:

In a house down the road they all went down with what they much later suspected was Covid-19. This was just over a year ago.

One of the house was visiting a relative in Abbotswood. If they indeed had Covid-19, it might explain a lot.

ETA:

The person they visited was later tested as Covid positive and died.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Barlow

[John Wright]

15 minutes ago, Barlow said:

 

 

Why:

In a house down the road they all went down with what they much later suspected was Covid-19. This was just over a year ago.

One of the house was visiting a relative in Abbotswood. If they indeed had Covid-19, it might explain a lot.

ETA:

The person they visited was later tested as Covid positive and died.

 

 

That’s not an explanation as to why you want an antibody test before getting a jab. Totally unrelated. Irrational ( but with you that’s a given )

[Barlow]

We're not all as clever and smart as you John. I'm not very bright and I probably am irrational but I try my best. It is a difficult time.

There is a possibility that someone has introduced Covid-19 into Abbotswood. It was introduced somehow and by somebody. If it can be found they did indeed have Covid then that raises the possibility of their introducing the disease at that time. An inoculation might nullify the process of discovering if they had Covid previously.

I hope that temporarily satisfies your need to pounce on people not as superior and erudite as yourself

Edited February 22, 2021 by Barlow

[Roger Mexico]

12 minutes ago, Barlow said:

There is a possibility that someone has introduced Covid-19 into Abbotswood. It was introduced somehow and by somebody. If it can be found they did indeed have Covid then that raises the possibility of their introducing the disease at that time. An inoculation might nullify the process of discovering if they had Covid previously.

Actually it wouldn't.  The antibodies that are produced by vaccination would be genetically different from those that were induced by a Covid-19 infection.  The real problem is that not everyone produces antibodies in the first place and even if they do they may not last for long.  Vaccines do this much more effectively which is why people should still have them, even if they have already had Covid.

[Apple]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

You've rather missed my original point, which was there is a big gap between being 'housebound' and being able to spend most of the day taking two or three buses to get down to the Airport, hang around waiting to be vaccinated and then catch another two or three buses to get back.   That requires the sort of sustained energy that a lot of the elderly don't now have, not to mention the worry of trying to work out what the bus timetables mean and if they will actually appear. A lot simply won't feel up to the effort.

Of course if the Manx government had a fleet of minibuses they would be able to take such people door to door but unfortunately that's not possible.

You also missed my point that, while I accepted that there wasn't time to make a full assessment, by the same token the visiting vaccinators wouldn't know the true capabilities of those they judged to be mobile.  A best they can make an informed guess.

I actually suspect that the Community Nurses are really saying "These people are OK to get to their GPs - why can't they get vaccinated there, just like they are for flu?".   The honest answer would be that they don't want to pay them for it when they'd rather spend the money employing more managers, so they'll probably claim they have the wrong colour skirting boards.  And then issue a press release blaming the customers, just like every incompetently run business does.

What 'e said. 

The bigger picture.

All the patients fault.

[John Wright]

40 minutes ago, Barlow said:

We're not all as clever and smart as you John. I'm not very bright and I probably am irrational but I try my best. It is a difficult time.

There is a possibility that someone has introduced Covid-19 into Abbotswood. It was introduced somehow and by somebody. If it can be found they did indeed have Covid then that raises the possibility of their introducing the disease at that time. An inoculation might nullify the process of discovering if they had Covid previously.

I hope that temporarily satisfies your need to pounce on people not as superior and erudite as yourself

I’m neither superior, nor erudite. But your position still doesn’t explain why YOU want an antibody test before getting vaccinated. It’s simply not relevant. And someone, anyone, taking Covid into Abbottswood a year ago is no reason for you to put off getting vaccinated.

Look, I’m immunocompromised, leukaemia fucked off a lifetime of immunity, I can’t wait to get jabbed. No idea if it’ll work. But I lose nothing.

I had pneumonia vaccine in November. I had antibody test for that recently. I scored well. So my new white cells work, once prompted. I’m now reviewing all my childhood illnesses and a lifetime of vaccinations with my GP and I’m going to get redone with boosters for everything that isn’t a live virus vaccination.

[Barlow]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually it wouldn't.  The antibodies that are produced by vaccination would be genetically different from those that were induced by a Covid-19 infection.  The real problem is that not everyone produces antibodies in the first place and even if they do they may not last for long.  Vaccines do this much more effectively which is why people should still have them, even if they have already had Covid.

Well that is the sort of help I was looking for. An indication anyway.

I don't want to go on about Abbotswood as it is an ongoing matter, but there is a significant chance that people I knew came to the Island from the continent to see a relative in January 2020. After a few days they felt shit. They felt even shitter going back home and on the ferry back to the continent as if they were going to die in their cabin.

Meanwhile, back on the Isle of Man, the Abbotswood resident became Covid positive (later died) and the people in the houshold felt shit (unusual persistent dry cough etc - you get the picture?).

But if they can be tested and found to have had Covid, then there is a possibility they infected people as above. The question is: would a vaccination compromise a test for possible previous infection.

Maybe it was 'just flu'. Maybe I am being "irrational" and talking fucking shit. Again. "As fucking usual".

[AcousticallyChallenged]

6 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Well that is the sort of help I was looking for. An indication anyway.

I don't want to go on about Abbotswood as it is an ongoing matter, but there is a significant chance that people I knew came to the Island from the continent to see a relative in January 2020. After a few days they felt shit. They felt even shitter going back home and on the ferry back to the continent as if they were going to die in their cabin.

Meanwhile, back on the Isle of Man, the Abbotswood resident became Covid positive (later died) and the people in the houshold felt shit (unusual persistent dry cough etc - you get the picture?).

But if they can be tested and found to have had Covid, then there is a possibility they infected people as above. The question is: would a vaccination compromise a test for possible previous infection.

Maybe it was 'just flu'. Maybe I am being "irrational" and talking fucking shit. Again. "As fucking usual".

Realistically, by now, there'd be no way to tell.

Antibody tests will show you up for about 6-8 months after infection at the most in the figures that used to come up.

Edited February 22, 2021 by AcousticallyChallenged

[Newbie]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

I thought they had specific staff to do this and it wasn't putting pressure on nursing staff.  Not necessarily true but I am sure Ashford said this. he said the only thing limiting progress was availability of vaccine.

I think that the vaccination hubs may have specific staff, but vaccinating people in their own homes is done by the Community Nurses, who also have all of their usual work to deal with.

[Newbie]

4 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

You've rather missed my original point, which was there is a big gap between being 'housebound' and being able to spend most of the day taking two or three buses to get down to the Airport, hang around waiting to be vaccinated and then catch another two or three buses to get back.   That requires the sort of sustained energy that a lot of the elderly don't now have, not to mention the worry of trying to work out what the bus timetables mean and if they will actually appear. A lot simply won't feel up to the effort.

Of course if the Manx government had a fleet of minibuses they would be able to take such people door to door but unfortunately that's not possible.

You also missed my point that, while I accepted that there wasn't time to make a full assessment, by the same token the visiting vaccinators wouldn't know the true capabilities of those they judged to be mobile.  A best they can make an informed guess.

I actually suspect that the Community Nurses are really saying "These people are OK to get to their GPs - why can't they get vaccinated there, just like they are for flu?".   The honest answer would be that they don't want to pay them for it when they'd rather spend the money employing more managers, so they'll probably claim they have the wrong colour skirting boards.  And then issue a press release blaming the customers, just like every incompetently run business does.

 

I didn't miss your point, it is just a difference of opinion. You don't think that Community Nurses carrying out vaccinations are able to properly assess whether someone is housebound, or whether they could attend a vaccination hub, whereas I do. In fact, they are generally very understanding, and give their patients a considerable degree of latitude. If it has got to the point where they are reporting a problem, I suspect it is significant.

You suggest that the recent press release is more to do with either Community Nurses trying to avoid dealing with previously unidentified problems, or alternatively that it is to do with the government trying to avoid paying GP's. I don't believe that, and I think that the Community Nurses' reports should be taken at face value.

Not everything has to be a conspiracy. Sometimes things are what they seem to be.