Vaccine- who will have it?

[Newbie]

6 hours ago, Apple said:

That raises the rare but real possibility that the person who actually administers the vaccine may also be culpable then doesn't it. ?

In the UK at least, indemnity for vaccinators is provided by the relevant Clinical Negligence scheme. There is a scheme for Trusts, one for General Practice and a new Coronavirus Clinical Negligence scheme that covers pharmacies. You can see the letter sent out here

In the IoM there is such a scheme covering DHSC employees, but the equivalent scheme for General Practice isn't yet in place as far as I am aware. GPs carry their own indemnity insurance, but whether that would cover them against problems arising out of administering Coronavirus vaccinations I don't know. I guess (and it is only a guess) that the indemnity situation may be a part of the reason we are not seeing GPs involved in the vaccine rollout in the same way that they are in the UK

[Gladys]

19 minutes ago, Newbie said:

I don't know what the terms of the indemnity provided to the IoM by the UK are, but presumably that is exactly what was being sorted out before the vaccine rollout started in the IoM. That delay to 'get the paperwork sorted' was heavily criticised by many people at the time, but it makes no sense to criticise the government for taking time to sort out any indemnity issues, and also criticise them for not sorting out those same indemnity issues. (I am not suggesting that you are, but others appear to be).

Ultimately, if there were to be a challenge to the indemnity provided by the UK, I suspect it would come down to what was provable in court. The UK would have a hard time arguing that the indemnity shouldn't apply if the 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine hadn't been administered after 3 weeks given that they themselves are not doing that.

As things currently stand it is purely academic since the IoM hasn't changed the dosage schedule for the Pfizer vaccine, and the manufacturer's recommendation for the AZ vaccine is that the second dose is given between 4 and 12 weeks.

You're right I didn't criticise "getting paperwork" right and the terms of the indemnity are very important.  

[asitis]

The bottom line is, since the 17th December when the vaccine was first received, we have inoculated 15,875 people of which a proportion are staff. The reasons for that piss poor performance can be argued about, however to use an approved Government phrase, we are where we are!

[horatiotheturd]

Omg.  They have finally put a website live to save people phoning 111.  Its like living in late 2020 in any other part of the world.

[Newbie]

3 minutes ago, asitis said:

The bottom line is, since the 17th December when the vaccine was first received, we have inoculated 15,875 people of which a proportion are staff. The reasons for that piss poor performance can be argued about, however to use an approved Government phrase, we are where we are!

You make that sound as though the staff are not people, with the same concerns, worries and vulnerabilities as all other citizens

 

[horatiotheturd]

4 minutes ago, Newbie said:

You make that sound as though the staff are not people, with the same concerns, worries and vulnerabilities as all other citizens

 

They may well have the same concerns etc.  That shouldn't have jumped the majority of them above anyone else.

If there is ever an inquiry into where the early vaccine allocations went then heads will roll and the "great manx public" will rightly be disgusted.

Fit healthy people in their 30s getting two doses before people in their 70s with health conditions have even had a letter, just because they work back office for dhss or for a charity  is a disgrace.

[asitis]

13 minutes ago, Newbie said:

You make that sound as though the staff are not people, with the same concerns, worries and vulnerabilities as all other citizens

 

I said, nor inferred no such thing, if you want to illustrate how many elderly and medically ( in terms of conditions ) at risk people have been vaccinated, then you have to acknowledge that is a number less than 15,875. My wife is a nurse and if she were working I would fully expect her to have been vaccinated.

[Boris Johnson]

Since people who work in the Cabinet Office have likely come into contact with more people with Covid than the majority of the "clinical" staff that got those first doses, I really would like to see an inquiry at the end of all this as to how they were allocated.

[Newbie]

15 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

Fit healthy people in their 30s getting two doses before people in their 70s with health conditions have even had a letter, just because they work back office for dhss

I would agree with that. Could you point me in the direction of the evidence for it, as I would be interested to see it.

[horatiotheturd]

1 minute ago, Newbie said:

I would agree with that. Could you point me in the direction of the evidence for it, as I would be interested to see it.

I don't have access to any evidence or lists other than my own social media feed weeks ago being full of people stating they had been for the jab.

Young, healthy people that wouldn't meet any eligibility criteria other than working for DHSS or one of a number of local charities.

I am sure anyone who needs evidence can do a bit of digging 

[Newbie]

7 minutes ago, asitis said:

I said, nor inferred no such thing, if you want to illustrate how many elderly and medically ( in terms of conditions ) at risk people have been vaccinated, then you have to acknowledge that is a number less than 15,875. My wife is a nurse and if she were working I would fully expect her to have been vaccinated.

Fair comment. The point I was making is that frontline care staff are in the top priority group. Just over 9000 vaccines have been given to people under the age of 65. Since they were done early, the staff should have all received 2 doses, so it is about 4,500 people. Assuming nearly all of the frontline staff fall into this category that doesn't seem a big number. That is nurse, doctors, HCAs, porters, physios, radiographers etc etc in Nobles, All clinical and many non-clinical staff in General practice, community pharmacies etc, all people who deliver care to patients at home such as district nurses, care assistants, all Care Home staff. Not much evidence of queue jumping in my view

[CallMeCurious]

12 hours ago, piebaps said:

The GPs, as oft moaned about on here, have been keeping patients at arms length. They couldn't adminster vaccines, it'd be too dangerous surely.

How do we do the flu jabs every year? Yes, the admin is different scale this time but we did have over six months Covid free to organise it.

But not in the UK where they seem to be doing it? Even those without the right facilities are doing it through hubs. 

As they say, where there is a will there is a way. After all, who knows how long we will be living with Covid or some other future outbreak.

[Newbie]

10 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

I don't have access to any evidence or lists other than my own social media feed weeks ago being full of people stating they had been for the jab.

Not the best starting point I would say, unless you have detailed knowledge of what all of those people do in their working lives

[horatiotheturd]

1 minute ago, Newbie said:

Not the best starting point I would say, unless you have detailed knowledge of what all of those people do in their working lives

Which I do.  Not patient facing, office based for DHSS.

Another works at a local charity but is perfectly fit and healthy.  I would guess they interact with less people through work in a month than a 60 year old checkout worker with underlying conditions.

[Newbie]

7 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

Which I do.  Not patient facing, office based for DHSS.

Another works at a local charity but is perfectly fit and healthy.  I would guess they interact with less people through work in a month than a 60 year old checkout worker with underlying conditions.

There will always be people who try to game the system and get something ahead of others, that is human nature. But given the number of people that do work in frontline healthcare roles, and the number of vaccines administered to the under 65 age group, there isn't any evidence that it is a big problem. There may be perfectly valid reasons why the 2 individuals you know were put in the top priority group, or they may have 'embellished' their roles in order to be vaccinated. If that is the case, it says more about them than the system that has vaccinated them. I don't know but perhaps you should ask them.

You can make a case for vaccinating workers in essential shops, as you can for Police Officers, Firemen, Bus Drivers, Teachers etc. etc. but those arguments haven't been accepted by the powers that be, whereas they have for frontline care workers.