Vaccine- who will have it?

[Out of the blue]

9 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I can’t see how a vaccine that is similar in construction to other vaccines causes thrombosis. The reports of the numbers seem to suggest a rate no higher than the background rate. I know @Albert Tatlocksuggested air bubbles as a mechanism but that makes no sense (air embolus is a totally different thing, and air itself would not cause a distant thrombosis). 
 

My only thought is on timing.  You’re vaccinating people who may have literally been sitting in front of the TV for a year, who get up for the first time to go out. Immobility predisposes to thrombosis (see Virchow’s Triad for the other two causes) and it might be this sudden burst of activity that causes the clot to present itself. 
 

I have no doubts that the vaccine itself is safe and largely effective. I posted ages ago that there will be reports of people dying within days of having it.  I think this is akin to that.

It beggars belief that EU and other regulators are taking this stance. Even if they are just being overly cautious for a few days to avoid any future recriminations, they risk harming the uptake due to the inevitable media chatter.  

[asitis]

Perhaps more to do with the EU's mess of vaccine provision than any significant medical risk. 

 

[The Old Git]

AZ rates seem broadly equivalent to Pfizer rates. Screenshotted this tweet for a mate who is concerned.  
 

[Happier diner]

14 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

It beggars belief that EU and other regulators are taking this stance. Even if they are just being overly cautious for a few days to avoid any future recriminations, they risk harming the uptake due to the inevitable media chatter.  

The problem is, if 100,000 people die of the virus no one is liable. If one person dies of the vaccine then someone is. Its crazy but the europeans don't have the nerve to do anything unless someone else is accountable and so they have all panicked.

The Irish are different, they won't want it because its British 

[hampsterkahn]

 

 

There have been millions of AZ Vaccine given in the UK.

There is a well respected special adverse reaction reporting system  in the UK( covers here)  for any new medicine or drug  called the ”yellow card “ system where ANY event that occurs that  might  not even be thought be associated with the drug or medicine is sent in

There has been a special Covid vaccine section set up. It reports every week on UK Gov  site MHRA 

There are unexpected things come up like you are much less likely to get reactions like chils, aches,  sore arm , high temp with your second jab than your first etc ... -  

But not reports of  coagulation/ thrombotic issues.

Their latest advice ( Today ) is to continue.

Association does not mean causation -( everyone gets ill  sometime  after their last meal )

The incidence of thrombosis is no different  to that expected in a comparable unvaccinated population .Some reports even  suggest slightly less - though using the same data to suggest that having the vaccine reduces the chance of having a thrombosis would be absurd  - but shows how tenuous these associations can be.  

I was champing at the bit  at the chance of having a vaccine - I have had both doses of AZ. and was absolutely fine.

And greatly relieved to have had it!

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

They will follow the UK...and the UK see no risk...as I suspect the rest of Europe will announce today.

However, if Europe pause longer, that will possibly mean more supplies for us in the short term.

EU is scared of it's own shadow.

Frankly, I find it amazing that EU chose to pick a fight and bully AZ when they screwed up on the wording of the agreement, especially as they pay long millions for legal services.  

[Non-Believer]

16 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

The Irish are different, they won't want it because its British 

@piebaps won't want it if it's English in any way 😂

[piebaps]

1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

@piebaps won't want it if it's English in any way 😂

Correct - I'm having the Fifezer me.

[piebaps]

10 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

@piebaps - a small prick.

I've been called worse

(Apologies for the selective quoting) 

[Roger Mexico]

48 minutes ago, wrighty said:

My only thought is on timing.  You’re vaccinating people who may have literally been sitting in front of the TV for a year, who get up for the first time to go out. Immobility predisposes to thrombosis (see Virchow’s Triad for the other two causes) and it might be this sudden burst of activity that causes the clot to present itself. 

What spooked the Norwegians was that three of those involved were not just under 50 but health workers (not all of whom may have been sitting in front of the TV for the last year).  Also three is quite a lot in a small country, even if less significant spread over all the countries that are using the vaccine.  In addition Norway had a previous scare with deaths post-vaccination in January, though on examination that turned out to be because they were dealing with a very vulnerable population.

So you can see why they might be cautious and suspended use of the vaccine for the moment (not stopped it).  It's probably just an unfortunate coincidence, but there were also worries that a particular manufacturing batch might be the problem as there were two linked cases in Austria. 

So they are being cautious, perhaps overly so, but you can see why.  It shouldn't be a worry to anyone taking the vaccine here (I think the UK has a different supply route from the EU/EEA for AZ anyway) but some context is required. 

Naturally you won't pick up any of this from the UK media who seem to be perpetually fighting an imaginary WW2 (only started after most of those who fought the real one were safely dead) and are just treating the whole thing as an insult to Us Brave Brits (though AZ is actually part Swedish).  Which may have the effect of scaring some people, because scaring their consumers is the British media's main field of expertise.  But there should be nothing to worry about.

[Andy Onchan]

7 minutes ago, piebaps said:

I've been called worse

(Apologies for the selective quoting) 

You're far too modest! 

[Happier diner]

8 minutes ago, piebaps said:

I've been called worse

(Apologies for the selective quoting) 

Maybe that's the problem. He is fed up of small English pricks.

[swoopy2110]

Are vaccines decided by region ? For example if you live in Douglas / Onchan you get Vaccine A at Chester St, and if you live in Port Erin you get vaccine B at the Airport ?

Or can someone who lives in Onchan be called to the airport depending on what's available at the time of their call.

[Banker]

Just now, swoopy2110 said:

Are vaccines decided by region ? For example if you live in Douglas / Onchan you get Vaccine A at Chester St, and if you live in Port Erin you get vaccine B at the Airport ?

Or can someone who lives in Onchan be called to the airport depending on what's available at the time of their call.

You get what’s available in terms of location & vaccine type with no choice 

[swoopy2110]

1 minute ago, Banker said:

You get what’s available in terms of location & vaccine type with no choice 

Cheers for clarifying.