Vaccine- who will have it?

[Banker]

20 minutes ago, wrighty said:

In conclusion therefore there is no scientific basis for forcing staff to be vaccinated in terms of protecting vulnerable patients. 
 

Sajid Javid has a big downer on unvaxxed staff - he basically said “if they can’t be bothered to get vaccinated they can f off and get another job” (I paraphrase). The only scientific basis though is that unvaxxed staff are a danger to themselves and should be kept out of high risk environments where they may catch covid from patients (PPE is not 100%), and if they do end up adding to the burden on the health service. Logically therefore it should also apply to unvaxxed visitors, who at the moment just need to be LFT negative, I think. 

But it’s not just Sajid saying it , lots of major countries are & many are including teachers & other government workers so they may be using some scientific data 

[The Phantom]

53 minutes ago, wrighty said:

In conclusion therefore there is no scientific basis for forcing staff to be vaccinated in terms of protecting vulnerable patients. 
 

Sajid Javid has a big downer on unvaxxed staff - he basically said “if they can’t be bothered to get vaccinated they can f off and get another job” (I paraphrase). The only scientific basis though is that unvaxxed staff are a danger to themselves and should be kept out of high risk environments where they may catch covid from patients (PPE is not 100%), and if they do end up adding to the burden on the health service. Logically therefore it should also apply to unvaxxed visitors, who at the moment just need to be LFT negative, I think. 

Basically forcing me wear a lifejacket (despite the fact I can swim) so other people don't drown! 

Edited November 11, 2021 by The Phantom

[TheTeapot]

10 minutes ago, Banker said:

But it’s not just Sajid saying it , lots of major countries are & many are including teachers & other government workers so they may be using some scientific data 

No. They're not. No science. It's just reactionary nonsense, just like vaccine passports, just like masks. Obviously every adult SHOULD get vaccinated, regardless of where they work, but the fact is it is and forever should be a choice. It's appalling that they have adopted the no jab no job policy, absolutely appalling. If you're in support of it you really need to reset your moral compass.

[Banker]

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

No. They're not. No science. It's just reactionary nonsense, just like vaccine passports, just like masks. Obviously every adult SHOULD get vaccinated, regardless of where they work, but the fact is it is and forever should be a choice. It's appalling that they have adopted the no jab no job policy, absolutely appalling. If you're in support of it you really need to reset your moral compass.

I didn’t say I agree with it but many countries are insisting which puts up vaccinations take up.

You seem to be getting very irate over it and sounding like an anti vaxxer !!

[TheTeapot]

7 minutes ago, Banker said:

I didn’t say I agree with it but many countries are insisting which puts up vaccinations take up.

You seem to be getting very irate over it and sounding like an anti vaxxer !!

Here's a twitter thread from the sharing scientist (a valuable follow btw) musing over whether vaccine passports really makes much difference to take up, looking mostly at Scotland.    https://twitter.com/ScienceShared/status/1458191692838866951

 

I am irate over it. I think it's awful. There's a pretty strong argument that some of the pressure could be taken off the NHS if there was somewhere to discharge patients to. Sacking a whole pile of care staff is hardly going to help, their time ended last night. Hopefully they'll drop it for the NHS before April.

Sounding like an antivaxxer!! Hahaha. I don't think you can get more pro-vaccine than me. I just don't agree with forcing people to take it.

Edited November 11, 2021 by TheTeapot

[Danoo]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

I didn’t say I agree with it but many countries are insisting which puts up vaccinations take up.

You seem to be getting very irate over it and sounding like an anti vaxxer !!

How exactly does he sound like an anti-vaxxer?

[Raffles]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Not according to the latest research I'm afraid, using a study reported in the Lancet.  We already knew that the vaccinated and unvaccinated had similar viral loads if they did catch Covid (though vaccination did seem to reduce levels a bit faster) and this latest suggests no reduction in household transmission.  An American study (based on UK data) suggests a small difference in the first few months but that then faded.  The data used in the Lancet study was based on smaller datasets, so it's possible that it might have missed smaller and transitory effects.

All these only really applied to the Delta variant, vaccination does seem to have provided some mitigation with the earlier Alpha and pre-Alpha variants, but the higher infectivity of Delta seems to have over-ridden this.

The point is that, even if there is some greater protection against transmission (as opposed to infection) that the effect is only marginal and that means that for example physical protection for vulnerable patients would need to be the same with both vaccinated and unvaccinated staff, both are equally likely to transmit the infection.

Thanks. Quite a small study and specific to household settings. Reading around about it, it also found that vaccinated are infectious for a shorter duration than unvaxed, hence transmission would likely still be lower.

There are many studies showing it reduces transmission as well. Including studies with much larger sample sizes.

I'm no fan of the idea of forced medicine. But I'm not a fan of unvaccinated frontline nhs staff either. 

[2112]

A lot of new news being talked today, with 16-17 year old recommended that they receive 2nd Covid vaccination dose. It’s also reported that the booster dose for over 50s be brought forward from in between 2nd dose of 6 month gap now to 5 month gap. The UK are going to include the 40 - 50 age group in the booster program. What happens here is another matter.

[Danoo]

6 minutes ago, 2112 said:

A lot of new news being talked today, with 16-17 year old recommended that they receive 2nd Covid vaccination dose. It’s also reported that the booster dose for over 50s be brought forward from in between 2nd dose of 6 month gap now to 5 month gap. The UK are going to include the 40 - 50 age group in the booster program. What happens here is another matter.

All getting totally absurd. The only benefit now is to Pfizer shareholders. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Danoo

[2112]

48 minutes ago, Danoo said:

All getting totally absurd. The only benefit now is to Pfizer shareholders. 

Are you advocating being unvaccinated? I’m not bothered if you are unvaccinated, as it’s your issue, as long as I haven’t got to come into close proximity. 
 

Im double vaccinated also had a flu jab, and due a booster shortly. Perhaps some people think the drug companies are making millions from the influenza vaccination? Maybe so. Without their research this pandemic would have rolled on years, at least there is light at the end of the tunnel. The Spanish Flu lasted from 1919-1920 well over 18 months and killed millions, without a luxury of a vaccine. 
 

If David Ashford, and he had many faults and the DHSC/Manx Care, had adopted a mindset that the drug companies were parasites and making too much money then this island would have been locked down with restrictions for ever. Next years TT would be cancelled and there would be no tourists. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by 2112

[Danoo]

5 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Are you advocating being unvaccinated? I’m not bothered if you are unvaccinated, as it’s your issue, as long as I haven’t got to come into close proximity. 
 

Im double vaccinated also had a flu jab, and due a booster shortly. Perhaps some people think the drug companies are making millions from the influenza vaccination? Maybe so. Without their research this pandemic would have rolled on years, at least there is light at the end of the tunnel. The Spanish Flu lasted from 1919-1920 well over 18 months and killed millions, without a luxury of a vaccine. 
 

If David Ashford, and he had many faults and the DHSC/Manx Care, had adopted a mindset that the drug companies were parasites and making too much money then this island would have been locked down with restrictions for ever. Next years TT would be cancelled and there would be no tourists. 

I'm double jabbed but I am getting rather tired of being told that in order to maintain my 'status' I need to succumb to the ever increasing need to 'top up.' 

[2112]

2 minutes ago, Danoo said:

I'm double jabbed but I am getting rather tired of being told that in order to maintain my 'status' I need to succumb to the ever increasing need to 'top up.' 

I respect your views but I have to live with it, doesn’t mean I have to like it. Im fed up I want a life, there’s loads of decent gigs next year at Arenas that I want to go out, holidays in sunnier climes . I’ll do what I can to comply and grasp opportunities. 

[Utah 01]

You may  find this of interest - I certainly did.  In summary:

'This video discusses new surprise discovery (yet to be confirmed by other scientists) that SARS-CoV-2 full length spike protein can enter human cell nuclei and interfere with fixing of broken DNA damage. Authors of the study propose this might have been evolved in order to prevent genetic recombination required to produce antibody variety to successfully attack the virus. If true, and if this could have important implications for potential negative health outcomes and might require reconfiguration of vaccine design.'

It's a balanced assessment bu undoubtedly underlines the fact the 'the State' is pumping vaccine into its citizens, and imploring them to keep on doing so, without any idea about the real short-term and long-term affects.

[Banker]

4 hours ago, 2112 said:

A lot of new news being talked today, with 16-17 year old recommended that they receive 2nd Covid vaccination dose. It’s also reported that the booster dose for over 50s be brought forward from in between 2nd dose of 6 month gap now to 5 month gap. The UK are going to include the 40 - 50 age group in the booster program. What happens here is another matter.

We will follow suit as CI have already announced, also booster jabs are being added to vaccinations passports as some countries will insist on them for entry 

[2112]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

We will follow suit as CI have already announced, also booster jabs are being added to vaccinations passports as some countries will insist on them for entry 

Hopefully Hooperman and Who Cares? won’t screw that up? The excuse trotted out earlier in the year was about supplies.