Vaccine- who will have it?

[Happier diner]

3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Here's the letter, and while obviously it makes sense to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible, I still think they're playing with people. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letter-to-the-profession-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-the-uk-covid-19-vaccination-programmes/letter-to-the-profession-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-regarding-the-uk-covid-19-vaccination-programmes

Wonder what the chances of a virus mutating to successfully avoid the efforts of the vaccine are when you only hit it with something survivable are. Obviously viruses are different to bacteria, but there is plenty of antibiotic resistant bacteria out there that has evolved apparently from uncompleted dosages.

It doesnt work like that. The vaccine doesnt kill the virus. Your body does. The vaccine just trains your body to react by showing it something very similar and your body learns to attack it. The vaccine leaves your system after days.

If the thing you show it becomes not similar to the target virus then you have a problem. However mankind has dealt with this challenge for decades now. Let's hope the clever folk can keep ahead as they have done to date.

[TheTeapot]

I hope you're right, I get that there is a significant difference between these vaccines and antiviral drugs, which is where some resistance usually starts occuring.

By changing the scheduled dosage they are still basically running a mass trial though. It's dodgy.

Edited January 1, 2021 by TheTeapot

[AcousticallyChallenged]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

I hope you're right, I get that there is a significant difference between these vaccines and antiviral drugs, which is where some resistance usually starts occuring.

By changing the scheduled dosage they are still basically running a mass trial though. It's dodgy.

COVID-19 is resistant to antiviral drugs, it’s something they discovered quite early on that they didn’t seem to have much impact. 
 

The reason being, as my understanding, is that there’s a level of proof reading built into the virus. If it has been modified, it can actually do a level of error correction. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1097276520305189

This means that as viruses go, the mutation rate of COVID is comparatively low compared to other RNA viruses  

The vaccine works by teaching your immune system how to latch on and break down the spike on the corona virus. Now, this spike is quite specialised, and happens to be how the virus enters your cells  

If the spike mutates drastically, you may well not have any immunity to the virus then, but the virus has shot itself in the foot and can’t actually infect any cells. 
 

Pfizer’s results mostly show infection in the period when the vaccine with one dose wouldn’t have been effective anyway, there wouldn’t have been enough of an immune response. Out of the people that did get it at that stage, nobody was hospitalised.

There isn’t any long term data yet for people getting only one dose because after the 3 week mark, they’d get the second dose anyway. It could transpire that one dose is effective enough to stop the pandemic. It does afford immunity in at least the 50-60% range, and trial results suggest nobody was hospitalised with the virus after having the one jab, which in the UK is where they’re really struggling. 

 

[quilp]

New advice about allergies and the various vaccines...

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2021/01/01/covid-vaccine-new-advice-issued/

 

[Happier diner]

4 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I

By changing the scheduled dosage they are still basically running a mass trial though. It's dodgy.

Yes that's true

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Sounds like the UK are really going for this vaccine experiment...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

[TheTeapot]

4 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Sounds like the UK are really going for this vaccine experiment...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

That's even worse. I didn't realise they were going to just jab jab jab the second with no regard for which one you had first. They're fucking mental, and very very desperate.

[Lagman]

"A large percentage of front-line workers in hospitals and nursing homes have refused to take the Covid-19 vaccine, a hurdle for public health officials as the country struggles to roll out inoculations around the country."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/many-frontline-workers-refuse-covid-19-vaccines-distribution-rollout-struggles-n1252617

https://nursingnews.in/netherlands-87000-healthcare-workers-denied-covid-19-vaccine/

https://rumble.com/vbos2p-vaccine-protest-in-the-netherlands-dr.-elke-de-klerk.html

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/12/one-third-of-healthcare-worker-union-members-wont-get-covid-vaccine/

"60% of nursing home workers refusing vaccine"

https://www.the-review.com/story/news/2021/01/01/ohio-covid-19-curfew-extension-january-dewine-announcement/4099845001/

"Less than half of the 700 eligible workers at a hospital in Tehama County took the vaccine when it became available, and a fifth of the medical staff at a hospital in the LA suburb of Mission Hills turned it down as well, the LA Times reported."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article248209160.html

"Vaccine development typically takes much more time - licensing can often take 10 years or longer, according to the CDC. The Food and Drug Administration has rigorous standards for approval of vaccines, since they are given widely to healthy people.

Concerns were fuelled this week by reports that two people in Alaska who received the vaccine suffered rare allergic reactions, which have also been seen in recipients in the UK. Pfizer and US drug regulators are now revising information for use and monitoring of the company's Covid-19 vaccine developed with BioNTech.

A national survey by the American Nurses Foundation in October found nurses almost evenly split when asked if they'd voluntarily be vaccinated against the virus, with 36 per cent saying no, 34 per cent saying yes, and 31 per cent unsure."

"At Loretto Hospital in Chicago, where the city's first Covid-19 vaccine was administered on Tuesday, 40 per cent of the staff do not plan to get it, according to a survey this month."

https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2020/12/650484/some-us-healthcare-workers-refusing-covid-vaccine-out-fear

"An Italian doctors association has warned or disciplined 10 medics for promoting anti-vaccination propaganda and is considering sanctions against three others who are accused of downplaying the gravity of covid-19."

"FNOMCEO’s president, Filippo Anelli, told the Italian media that around 100 medics were unwilling to receive the immunisation, adding that vaccine scepticism was “incompatible with the profession because it denied the scientific evidence.”

"Despite the investigation against him he has continued to make unsubstantiated assertions. Last week he declared, “The English variant of covid that is causing so much concern at the moment confirms what I have been arguing for months: the vaccine for a virus that has already changed so many times risks being ineffective and even dangerous.”

"Pierpaolo Sileri, Italy’s deputy health minister and a professor of surgery, hit out at his vaccine sceptic colleagues. “I am perplexed when I hear of fellow doctors or nurses reluctant to get the vaccine,” he said. “I can understand it regarding a member of the public who perhaps does not have the scientific understanding"

"In France, the latest monthly poll by CoviPrev for Santé Publique France (the public health agency) found that only 40% of respondents said that they would consider getting vaccinated—and of those, only 13% said that they were “certain” to receive it"

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4962

"When the well-known Polish journalist Hanna Lis recently tweeted about how she suffered an anaphylaxic shock — i.e. severe allergic reaction — social media blew up. While Lis described the experienced as the "worst trauma" of her life, she did not specify what exactly caused the shock. Nevertheless, her tweet sparked a heated debate over the potential side effects of the newly developed coronavirus vaccines. Critics were quick to reference reports from Great Britain and the US about how coronavirus jabs had caused anaphylactic shocks."

https://www.dw.com/en/anti-vaccine-sentiment-rife-in-poland/a-56100878

 

[wrighty]

7 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

That's even worse. I didn't realise they were going to just jab jab jab the second with no regard for which one you had first. They're fucking mental, and very very desperate.

I don’t agree with this, whatever the health chiefs are being leant on to say. This is a trial, which should have ethical approval and fully informed consent for the participants. Imagine the shitstorm if, for example, someone has the Pfizer vaccine and 2 months later has a major reaction to the Oxford vaccine. Neither Pfizer nor Astra-Zeneca will take responsibility. Will the UK ‘health chiefs’?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I don’t agree with this, whatever the health chiefs are being leant on to say. This is a trial, which should have ethical approval and fully informed consent for the participants. Imagine the shitstorm if, for example, someone has the Pfizer vaccine and 2 months later has a major reaction to the Oxford vaccine. Neither Pfizer nor Astra-Zeneca will take responsibility. Will the UK ‘health chiefs’?

I'm not sure the science would support this scenario. Vaccines leave the body within days of application so how could it react. I am sure that there are persons with much more knowledge than us so why spread fear.

[wrighty]

6 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I'm not sure the science would support this scenario. Vaccines leave the body within days of application so how could it react. I am sure that there are persons with much more knowledge than us so why spread fear.

I don’t want to spread fear - I’m having my first jab Monday - but it could react - the immune response generated by the first jab will certainly last longer than the days you mention, and could interact with the components of the Oxford jab in ways that simply haven’t been tested. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, wrighty said:

I don’t want to spread fear - I’m having my first jab Monday - but it could react - the immune response generated by the first jab will certainly last longer than the days you mention, and could interact with the components of the Oxford jab in ways that simply haven’t been tested. 

Hi wrighty. If you read what I put I said vaccines clear the body quickly. The immune response will hopefully last a long time. You suggested the vaccines could react. I was assuring you they would not.

Yes there are unknowns, just saying that the basic human biology would suggest this was not a particular risk.

Good luck with the jab, you are lucky.

[TheTeapot]

You can't mix and match and just hope. That's fucking ridiculous. There is NO EVIDENCE it will work. It's conducting a trial out of desperation and fucking with people's lives.

You get prescribed a medication from the doctor, say an antidepressant, take it for a month, get a repeat but the chemist says we haven't got that one, here's a different one instead, it's still an antidepressant, is this an acceptable thing? Is it fuck. 

Supporting that approach shows utter contempt for the people who have developed and tested the vaccines, and for the people you are supposed to be saving 

It's dangerous and stupid.

[TheTeapot]

I doubt that there is anyone I. The world who has had a shot of the Pfizer vaccine followed a couple of months later by the ox/AZ one. But just give it to the public anyway yeah? Ffs.

[wrighty]

37 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Hi wrighty. If you read what I put I said vaccines clear the body quickly. The immune response will hopefully last a long time. You suggested the vaccines could react. I was assuring you they would not.

Yes there are unknowns, just saying that the basic human biology would suggest this was not a particular risk.

Good luck with the jab, you are lucky.

You need to read what I said. I have not said the vaccines will interact. I have suggested it’s possible the subject may react to the second vaccine after having the first some time previously. This has not been tested so nobody knows. 
 

I understand basic biology, far more than most.