the stinking enigma Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Still, it would be a little shortsighted not to dish out a worming tablet with each dose. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I've tried looking at it from the other way round. I can't support it. It's asking for trouble. Just think what happens if the gamble doesn't work. I don't understand how they (PHE/JVCI) can say there there is evidence when the makers themselves say there is 'no data'. Its wishful thinking, and completely anti-science. I hope it works. But the evidence is there for the first shot, PHE is using the data provided by the producers it's not their own interpretation. Arguably (as you are), they may be some doubt about it's efficacy after 21 days but if I understand correctly the biology is the same as any other vaccine program. The body learns to recognise the threat and deal with it. Do we really have the time right now to argue whether the booster should be 21 or 60 days? Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: But the evidence is there for the first shot, PHE is using the data provided by the producers it's not their own interpretation. Arguably (as you are), they may be some doubt about it's efficacy after 21 days but if I understand correctly the biology is the same as any other vaccine program. The body learns to recognise the threat and deal with it. Do we really have the time right now to argue whether the booster should be 21 or 60 days? Looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. It's entirely possible I'm wrong. There is evidence that the first shot triggers an immune response of course, that is clear, but again, from Pfizer "there is no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days'. What is the point in running safety and efficiency trials for a new and experimental medication if you then just ignore them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Banker said: Exactly correct, should have plenty of capability as cancelling elective surgery,routine appointments, GP appointments etc . cancelling elective surgery etc when we have 1 COVID patient in hospital is absolutely stupid I’ve been unable to get a face to face appointment with my GP for the last 4 months, I’ve been fobbed off and left to do the chasing myself, given email addresses and phone numbers for different departments to try and organise things directly, so I don’t see what’s any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 36 minutes ago, Apple said: in UK pharmacists and dentists are screaming out to help out with vaccination programme but NHS not allowing...yet. Depends on who gets paid for what....presumably here that isn't a problem. Can't you?...darn. 😁 The Pfizer vaccine is too difficult to transport and administer to ship it out to pharmacies. Once the AZ vaccine is available in decent quantities they will outsource it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: It's entirely possible I'm wrong. There is evidence that the first shot triggers an immune response of course, that is clear, but again, from Pfizer "there is no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days'. What is the point in running safety and efficiency trials for a new and experimental medication if you then just ignore them? But it's not really new or experimental, at least the backbone of the vaccine isn't, that's one of the reasons why it got to market in record time and it's also why the PHE/JCVI and even HMRA are confident in the efficacy trade-off in regards to the 2nd jab. I'll leave it there on this particular part of the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, Cambon said: So, in one of the press conferences, it was announced that we will be sticking to the recommended 21 day approach. To try and ensure consistency, each persons second dose will be from the same batch, at least for the Pfizer jab. Does the two doses being from the same batch even make any sense? Is what Pfizer recommend? I can't find any evidence online and indeed could you even regard the same batch as being the same three weeks later? I actually find the relentless stream of scientific nonsense that Ashford has been coming out with quite scary. We've been told that the vaccine couldn't be shaken in transit (duh, it's deep-frozen); that the doses had to be exactly 21 days apart (19-42 was what the manufacturers say); that we were following the guidelines on who it should be given to (we haven't); all sorts of nonsense about the speed with which it can be administered. I can only assume that administrators are making arbitrary decisions on a whim and then justifying them with nonsensical bollocks which Ashford dutifully repeats without question. The scary thing isn't that he's weak and gullible (we'd all worked that out) but that the people he's listening to really don't seem to have a clue and don't seem to be interested in finding out the scientific evidence. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: I'll leave it there on this particular part of the debate. Fair enough man. I'm open to having my mind changed though, so you don't have to 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Worrying thesis just been put forward on Sky (sorry @Roxanne) from a Prof. Richard Tedder of Imperial College, London who expresses his concern that this business of the "half a dose" malarkey may play right into the virus' hands. It has proved "shrewd" and adaptable enough to mutate in other respects so far; if we reduce vaccine dosage in recipients thus weakening the intention of the vaccination, the virus may be able to identify this and mutate to become immune. It's a similar scenario to bugs becoming resistant to antibiotics by people not completing their prescribed dose to kill the bug completely which is already a worldwide problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo65 Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) No requirement to observe patients for 15 minutes after Oxford/AstraZeneca Covid vaccination says MHR A. Edited January 7, 2021 by momo65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: It's a similar scenario to bugs becoming resistant to antibiotics by people not completing their prescribed dose to kill the bug completely which is already a worldwide problem. Its not a similar scenario to bugs becoming resistant to antibiotics by people not completing their prescribed dose to kill the bug completely which is already a worldwide problem. Antibiotics are a treatment (medicine), vaccines are vaccines. You analogy is very poor A better analogy is showing a child a reading card once and expecting them to remember it forever vs showing them it once today and then again tomorrow and seeing the greater success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Rushen Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Banker said: More calls to ramp up roll out https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ramsey-has-scope-to-boost-vaccine-rollout/ Getting the population vaccinated quickly, correctly without any delay will be the actions most remembered by election time. Politicians should hand it over to the medics and get it done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, Major Rushen said: Getting the population vaccinated quickly, correctly without any delay will be the actions most remembered by election time. Politicians should hand it over to the medics and get it done. Here Here Sir. You are spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) Just driven through Onchan and say masks 50/50 with those not wearing couples holding hands and taking up all pavement!! called for petrol at corkills, everyone had masks on except one old boy and when challenged by another customer he said none of your business and went right up close to him. Noticed that the old boy came upto other guys car on forecourt to argue but he sensibly drove off. so unless it’s mandatory these arguments will increase sorry posted on wrong thread!! Edited January 7, 2021 by Banker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Its not a similar scenario to bugs becoming resistant to antibiotics by people not completing their prescribed dose to kill the bug completely which is already a worldwide problem. Antibiotics are a treatment (medicine), vaccines are vaccines. You analogy is very poor A better analogy is showing a child a reading card once and expecting them to remember it forever vs showing them it once today and then again tomorrow and seeing the greater success. It wasn't MY analogy. It was that of Prof Tedder being interviewed. I'm not qualified to question his opinions. Presumably, unlike yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.