General Thread for the election (old Electioneering starting early thread from Local News)

[TerryFuchwit]

48 minutes ago, asitis said:

David Cretney is a very nice chap, but imo that sadly was his achilles heel in politics. Many of the outrageous Spanish practices and union demands were placed at the door of David and approved on his watch. The island is still struggling to divest itself of these today. Election 2021 needs to be as far away from the old boys as it can possibly get if the island stands any chance of emerging into the sunlit uplands. We cannot afford another five years of backward thinking and the set in stone mentality.

What do you mean by "backward thinking "?   

What's your solution?  If you could wave a magic wand and the current 24 MHKs didnt get back in, what would be your solution?

[asitis]

50 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said:

What do you mean by "backward thinking "?   

What's your solution?  If you could wave a magic wand and the current 24 MHKs didnt get back in, what would be your solution?

I didn't say I had a solution! I have said repeatedly that we need better candidates to stand, preferably those who have no connections to the many skeletons rattling around in cupboards. For thirty years I have watched lessons be learned and moving on, whilst we keep making the same mistakes. Fiscal irresponsibility and departmental profligacy are par for the course, and have always been covered by the excess of money swilling around. Anyone who thinks that the old boys club does not operate in the shadows at all levels is deluded. Until we throw open the curtains and let the sun shine in we will keep having meaningless pac enquires, which have the hallmarks of being savaged by your favourite carpet slippers. We have had enough money for enough years to be far removed from the situations we find ourselves in now, had good governance been at the forefront.

Those shills on here love to retort with the "why don't you stand", the reason I don't stand is when I look in the mirror I don't believe I have the life experience and relevant skills to be able to make a difference, what I find disturbing is that people who clearly have none of the required qualities look in the mirror and think that they do. Our parliament is not big enough for there to be a top table and a raft of also rans, which is why we need high quality candidates throughout.

It is very difficult for anyone to point to an area of governance and say " we do that well" !

 

[Uhtred]

6 minutes ago, asitis said:

I didn't say I had a solution! I have said repeatedly that we need better candidates to stand, preferably those who have no connections to the many skeletons rattling around in cupboards. For thirty years I have watched lessons be learned and moving on, whilst we keep making the same mistakes. Fiscal irresponsibility and departmental profligacy are par for the course, and have always been covered by the excess of money swilling around. Anyone who thinks that the old boys club does not operate in the shadows at all levels is deluded. Until we throw open the curtains and let the sun shine in we will keep having meaningless pac enquires, which have the hallmarks of being savaged by your favourite carpet slippers. We have had enough money for enough years to be far removed from the situations we find ourselves in now, had good governance been at the forefront.

Those shills on here love to retort with the "why don't you stand", the reason I don't stand is when I look in the mirror I don't believe I have the life experience and relevant skills to be able to make a difference, what I find disturbing is that people who clearly have none of the required qualities look in the mirror and think that they do. Our parliament is not big enough for there to be a top table and a raft of also rans, which is why we need high quality candidates throughout.

It is very difficult for anyone to point to an area of governance and say " we do that well" !

 

For ‘Old Boys Club’ you could substitute ‘Down at the Lodge’.

[joebean]

16 minutes ago, asitis said:

I didn't say I had a solution! I have said repeatedly that we need better candidates to stand, preferably those who have no connections to the many skeletons rattling around in cupboards. For thirty years I have watched lessons be learned and moving on, whilst we keep making the same mistakes. Fiscal irresponsibility and departmental profligacy are par for the course, and have always been covered by the excess of money swilling around. Anyone who thinks that the old boys club does not operate in the shadows at all levels is deluded. Until we throw open the curtains and let the sun shine in we will keep having meaningless pac enquires, which have the hallmarks of being savaged by your favourite carpet slippers. We have had enough money for enough years to be far removed from the situations we find ourselves in now, had good governance been at the forefront.

Those shills on here love to retort with the "why don't you stand", the reason I don't stand is when I look in the mirror I don't believe I have the life experience and relevant skills to be able to make a difference, what I find disturbing is that people who clearly have none of the required qualities look in the mirror and think that they do. Our parliament is not big enough for there to be a top table and a raft of also rans, which is why we need high quality candidates throughout.

It is very difficult for anyone to point to an area of governance and say " we do that well" !

 

Absolutely spot on. The unfortunate reality is that nothing will change and the voters will dutifully shuffle into the booths and do the same thing they have done in your 30 years of watching. Last time round, I helped vote in Tim Baker! I’m not risking it again and will putting my card in the bin. They can do it again, without my endorsement. 

[asitis]

Just now, Roxanne said:

There are a lot more young people coming forward this time. They’re doing something about it. Let’s support them not pull them down. They’re trying at least and they’re not part of the old boys club. Even more, a lot of them are smart, articulate, and have integrity. This is the first sign of real change for years. Let’s not spoil it with negativity. Let’s support them instead. 

I'm certainly not pulling anyone down, bravo for standing! We are too small however to carry an element of the real nice girl/guy candidate if they have no sign of the understandings needed to deal with the island in the context of the wide world.

[Declan]

1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

There are a lot more young people coming forward this time. They’re doing something about it. Let’s support them not pull them down. They’re trying at least and they’re not part of the old boys club. Even more, a lot of them are smart, articulate, and have integrity. This is the first sign of real change for years. Let’s not spoil it with negativity. Let’s support them instead. 

It doesn't really matter if they are standing as independents. There was quite a lot of turnover of personnel last time. I remember talking to a bunch of youngsters weekend after the election and they were really excited because they thought there'd be change. 

What happened next? Within days all the Independents joined the COMIN party, Quayle becomes CM in  dodgy circumstances and we have a less progressive, less compassionate, more incompetent, more change adverse government than the last one.

[joebean]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

It doesn't really matter if they are standing as independents. There was quite a lot of turnover of personnel last time. I remember talking to a bunch of youngsters weekend after the election and they were really excited because they thought there'd be change. 

What happened next? Within days all the Independents joined the COMIN party, Quayle becomes CM in  dodgy circumstances and we have a less progressive, less compassionate, more incompetent, more change adverse government than the last one.

Yes, it’s nice to be positive but the political and parliamentary system, plus the apathy it generates, is geared to produce more of the same. Change has to come because the public, not the “politicians” demand it. Good luck with that. 

[Apple]

2 hours ago, asitis said:

Until we throw open the curtains and let the sun shine in we will keep having meaningless pac enquires, which have the hallmarks of being savaged by your favourite carpet slippers.

This and the previous posts.

The answer is to have the public actually inside Government, not being kept at arms length.  e.g. - Members of the public invited to sit for example on all the scrutinising committees. 

There are lots of people who give their time for a modest attendance allowance to scrutinise all kinds of services, that should be made more independent and wider participation.

Can you imagine if there were fixed term Ministerial appointments based on performance indicators and Ministers approved by a very public committee, including emoluments and standards. How about deselection ?

There are other things that can be done, but in the end the issue is one of respect for the electorate, explaining what is happening behind too many closed doors, and why things are being done the way they are. It is time to trust the public and treat most of us as adults.

I will only vote for anyone who agrees to put the public into the centre of political activity on the island.

A very rare breath of fresh air indeed.

[Apple]

1 minute ago, Roxanne said:

Maybe that’s why the young ones are standing. To change the way it works because, right now it doesn’t work. It’s ripe for the opposite of work. I’d like to think that if they get in they will be a vehicle for change - especially if enough of them get in. 

If they stand on the ticket of "public in parliament" then they would get my vote, but they would have to make it clear where they are going with it and with ideas of their own. 

The approach of " we will do what is best for the island" won't work anymore. 

Just challenging and shouting at the CM in the HoK will not change things.

The candidates we have are far too focussed only on their own constituents, in order to get back in. Human nature. Already been let down by Mr Christian I am afraid. If you are not a constituent, you will be lucky if they engage with you.

[Andy Onchan]

11 minutes ago, Apple said:

If they stand on the ticket of "public in parliament" then they would get my vote, but they would have to make it clear where they are going with it and with ideas of their own. 

The approach of " we will do what is best for the island" won't work anymore. 

Just challenging and shouting at the CM in the HoK will not change things.

The candidates we have are far too focussed only on their own constituents, in order to get back in. Human nature. Already been let down by Mr Christian I am afraid. If you are not a constituent, you will be lucky if they engage with you.

You're forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Executive are betwixt the so-called policy makers (Tynwald or HOK specifically) and the electorate. Until the Executive are made more accountable then nothing will change. 

[Peter Layman]

For the life of me I cannot remember who but it was sent to me a while ago. It was entitled MHK - Ten Questions.

1. Which three issues are at the top of your agenda and how would you progress them?

2. What are likely to be the lasting consequences for the Isle of Man of the Covid-19 crisis?

3. Overall, are you supportive of the priorities and performance of the current government?

4. Would you be prepared to increase taxes or charges to pay for health and social care, and for action on climate change?

5. What are the key factors that will ensure the future success of the Manx economy?

6. Does the Isle of Man need more new residents and housing development?

7. How do you view the island’s constitutional and economic position in a post-Brexit world?

8. What is the best way of helping the less prosperous parts of our society?

9. What would you change in the Manx political system to make it more democratic?

10. As an MHK would you vote for a proposal that was good for the Isle of Man as a whole but unpopular with some of your constituents?

[Derek Flint]

There is a real dilemma facing the Island in September and I really feel for anyone who cares. The problem is that for the majority, the Covid ‘success’ has blurred things and most people will just think ‘ooh they’ve done a WUN-derful job’. If a candidate is currently in a seat they won’t have to work that hard to be returned. 

I thought that the 2016-21 administration was going to shit or bust one. Nothing has changed for the better in the last years so the need for radical change has never been more pressing

[Non-Believer]

5 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

I thought that the 2016-21 administration was going to shit or bust one. Nothing has changed for the better in the last years so the need for radical change has never been more pressing

The 16 - 21 administration saw a lot of new faces voted in that were going to be the start of a new era in Manx politics, if my memory serves me. New blood, new beginnings, new brushes sweeping clean. Is that what has happened?

I've quietly noted some of Alf's utterings over the last 6+ months, "Poor records on delivery", the recent Budget points to include outlining/highlighting Longworth's buses profligacy, the new proposals (note, proposals) on Capital funding because of the "unwieldy, inefficient" system currently in place. 

I say "note proposals" because doubtless there will be any number of Govt jobs, careers, sub-depts and empires predicated on those unwieldy inefficiencies which will fight tooth and nail to maintain their privilege. Which is why it's gone on for so long. There'll have to be all sorts of consultations and giveaways before this happens.

Alf will be in for a fight if he thinks he's going to implement change like a walk in the park. Change will be resisted no matter who stands at the next election.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Non-Believer
extra bit

[Apple]

27 minutes ago, Peter Layman said:

For the life of me I cannot remember who but it was sent to me a while ago. It was entitled MHK - Ten Questions.

With all due respect the questions are easy. 

It's the answers (or lack of detail in them) that is important.

Politicians now have become adept at obfuscation and evasion. Most of them plainly just "do not know" but think that answer is a sign of failure. 

I am not suggesting they should be able to predict the circumstances the island will face during their term (as if) but the greater involvement by the public in meeting the needs of that public, (both legally, strategically and in policy) needs to have a higher  profile now.

[TerryFuchwit]

4 hours ago, asitis said:

I didn't say I had a solution! I have said repeatedly that we need better candidates to stand, preferably those who have no connections to the many skeletons rattling around in cupboards. For thirty years I have watched lessons be learned and moving on, whilst we keep making the same mistakes. Fiscal irresponsibility and departmental profligacy are par for the course, and have always been covered by the excess of money swilling around. Anyone who thinks that the old boys club does not operate in the shadows at all levels is deluded. Until we throw open the curtains and let the sun shine in we will keep having meaningless pac enquires, which have the hallmarks of being savaged by your favourite carpet slippers. We have had enough money for enough years to be far removed from the situations we find ourselves in now, had good governance been at the forefront.

Those shills on here love to retort with the "why don't you stand", the reason I don't stand is when I look in the mirror I don't believe I have the life experience and relevant skills to be able to make a difference, what I find disturbing is that people who clearly have none of the required qualities look in the mirror and think that they do. Our parliament is not big enough for there to be a top table and a raft of also rans, which is why we need high quality candidates throughout.

It is very difficult for anyone to point to an area of governance and say " we do that well" !

 

You don't have to be a "shill" to challenge someone about putting themselves forward.  After all, by your own admission, you have spent thirty years observing (moaning about) issues yet done absolutely zero to make a change.

Ignoring that though - so what would you do? What's your utopian September election?

Let's imagine all 24 MHKs are binned now.  You've got a blank sheet of paper.

Who are your MHKs?  Give me some examples of the people you would expect.