General Thread for the election (old Electioneering starting early thread from Local News)

[Uhtred]

8 minutes ago, Josem said:

The very decent book, Why We Get The Wrong Politicians, talks about this issue, and explains it as a key reason that our political leaders do not look like the broader population.

This book is an excellent read and I recommend it to all MF contributors.

[John Wright]

@Keiran Hannifin

your sentencing policy is poorly thought out and contradictory.

If we had what the public wanted ( how do we really meaningfully measure that ) then we’d still have the death penalty, birching, defenestration, rolling witches down Slieau Whallian, ducking stools, castration. 

To have the same sentence as the last one, presumes all offences,  under an identical charge, have the same features, the same circumstances, the same damage or injury,  and the offenders have the same characteristics and means to pay.

Thats just not true. Every offence is individual and has its own set of aggravating and mitigating factors. Every offender is an individual and has their own set of aggravating and mitigating attributes.

Sentencing is an art, not a science. However there are guidelines issued to all sentencers. They set out, offence by offence, the things to be taken into account, the starting point, the range, the additions for aggravating factors and the reductions for mitigating ones.

You'd do well to look them up and gain an understanding. Sentencing isn’t random, or capricious.

[doc.fixit]

It sometimes appears to be, to the layman. Ability to pay for defence also seems to be a factor.

[Barlow]

20 minutes ago, John Wright said:

He’s a fully qualified and experienced Co-op shelf stacker, isn’t he?

Regarding qualification and education:

It is worth reiterating: always remember that Peter Karran and his Dolphin Certificate kicked the ass of every candidate on the Island for many General Elections.

And as a fledgling 21 year old at his very first election received more votes than a certain highly educated and qualified young advocate did at his (albeit different by-election) first and only attempt...

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Barlow

[reptar]

@Keiran Hannifin

Please stop calling it a Mann-ifesto, it's very, very annoying and makes my teeth itch every time you do it.

Cheers

[Roger Mexico]

But to be fair John, there's MHKs who have exactly the same beliefs and ignorance about how things work, or at least pretend they do.  At least Keiran is trying to educate himself.

[John Wright]

15 minutes ago, Barlow said:

Regarding qualification and education:

It is worth reiterating: always remember that Peter Karran and his Dolphin Certificate kicked the ass of every candidate on the Island for many General Elections.

And as a fledgling 21 year old at his very first election received more votes than a certain highly educated and qualified young advocate did at his (albeit different by-election) first and only attempt...

 

I’m not hung up on qualification or education. The island has had many excellent MHKs with working class credentials and no further education.

I helped Peter with his campaigning before I became deputy returning officer. The Onchan Labour Party in those days was large and well run at electioneering. 

Remember, in Peters first election for the Keys in 1981, it was a general election. His electorate each had 3 votes. He got a fair number of “second” and “third” choices. Rushen in a bye-election, in 1982, all electors had one vote.  I lost, fair and square, to the better candidate.

Im not embarrassed by my result. Eddie Lowey felt he couldn’t help ( his election to MLC had made him unpopular - there was an unpleasant smear attempt in the background as well ), the winning candidate was the son of a former MHK and his campaign manager was his mum, who was a leading member of Rushen Labour Party. That may, or may not, have been a little handicap.

[John Wright]

8 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But to be fair John, there's MHKs who have exactly the same beliefs and ignorance about how things work, or at least pretend they do.  At least Keiran is trying to educate himself.

And I’ve tried to give a pointer. I may be right, or wrong, but he can look it up and decide for himself.

[Barlow]

9 minutes ago, John Wright said:

 

Im not embarrassed by my result. 

It was a respectable result, and runner up out of 6 candidates. I have respect for anyone who stands. Thanks for putting that election into perspective. I note TC's youngfella didn't stand at the following general election.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Barlow

[Manxtoffee]

29 minutes ago, Josem said:I think the chief reason in favour of running is to contribute to making our community a better place (different people can define that differently, of course). I think the chief reasons against running relate to personal costs (privacy, money, time, effort, etc). Basically, the costs of being a candidate, and of being elected, are concentrated into individuals, and the potential benefits are mostly dispersed. The very decent book, Why We Get The Wrong Politicians, talks about this issue, and explains it as a key reason that our political leaders do not look like the broader population.

I would agree with this. I do not think it’s worth the lack of privacy or the pay cheque for politicians over here. The issue is it doesn’t attract the calibre of people we require for real change (generally speaking only) as the individuals we need are in better, happier or higher paid jobs in the private sector. Thus leaving us with a large amount of useless or semi-capable MHKs/MLCs/backbenchers. Everybody hates ‘work politics’ anyway, imagine the work politics whilst being a politician - double whammy of shite, and not worth the headache for most! 

[Andy Onchan]

2 minutes ago, Manxtoffee said:

I would agree with this. I do not think it’s worth the lack of privacy or the pay cheque for politicians over here. The issue is it doesn’t attract the calibre of people we require for real change (generally speaking only) as the individuals we need are in better, happier or higher paid jobs in the private sector. Thus leaving us with a large amount of useless or semi-capable MHKs/MLCs/backbenchers. Everybody hates ‘work politics’ anyway, imagine the work politics whilst being a politician - double whammy of shite, and not worth the headache for most! 

Can you define calibre?

[Manxtoffee]

Quality of character is mainly what I refer to. 

[Andy Onchan]

3 minutes ago, Manxtoffee said:

Quality of character is mainly what I refer to. 

And the characteristics?

[Manxtoffee]

Honesty, integrity, transparency, fairness, self-awareness, humility, pragmatism, few brain cells preferable... all the good stuff, you know. 

[John Wright]

37 minutes ago, reptar said:

@Keiran Hannifin

Please stop calling it a Mann-ifesto, it's very, very annoying 

It’s his USP