Keiran Hannifin Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Roxanne said: Would it help if I said you can be an absolute fucking arsehole at times? It can't be ignored 😂 I prefer "blunt" (insert cannabis joke here) but I'll admit I can be a bit ass holey from time to time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Actually the third of your links has Ewart pointing out that the suicide rate here is about the same as it is in England. Her evidence was discussed on MF at the time and is in the Social Affairs Committee Report produced on the subject. As for drug deaths, I analysed the 2017 figures on here at the time and they were worrying. I'l see if there is anything more recent. There is more data to support it. And I will eventually dig it out. About to hit a big dog walk. But our suicide rate is considerably higher. Our female to male suicide rate is also high. But I'm fairly sure that can be explained by our population by sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 And also. A cause for concern is, if someone takes 8 times the safe dose of a prescribed medicine and dies alone in their flat. And how that "data" is reported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Keiran Hannifin said: And also. A cause for concern is, if someone takes 8 times the safe dose of a prescribed medicine and dies alone in their flat. And how that "data" is reported Depends on the inquest verdict, but most likely would be recorded as an open or narrative verdict. However these are usually included in the suicide figures, both here and in the UK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Depends on the inquest verdict, but most likely would be recorded as an open or narrative verdict. However these are usually included in the suicide figures, both here and in the UK. I am looking forward to finding more out about it. I'm currently organising with my boss halving my hours to run at this properly... But once I have an idea of my time, I fully plan to be meeting ewart, social services, treasury, as well as various charities and people who have suffered from close losses of suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keiran Hannifin Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) I for one, believe to tackle problems on severe sociological issues, you need both types of data to actually fix problems. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=107373258033049&id=102257088544666 Edited January 31, 2021 by Keiran Hannifin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Keiran Hannifin said: There is more data to support it. And I will eventually dig it out. About to hit a big dog walk. But our suicide rate is considerably higher. Our female to male suicide rate is also high. But I'm fairly sure that can be explained by our population by sex. The most up to date figures are for 2015-17[1] - you need a rolling average over (at least) three years to avoid individual events skewing the averages - and are available in this Excel spreadsheet about the Public Health Outcomes Framework (PHOF): https://www.gov.im/media/1366580/phof-master.xlsx (Available via the Public Health page and clicking on Director of Public Health in the accordion) They show suicide rates are as I said - 10.2[2] for the Isle of Man, not significantly different[3] from England as a whole (9.9). Similarly the male (13.7 v 14.7) and female (6.4 v 4.7) weren't significant enough either. A related statistic "Emergency Hospital Admissions for Intentional Self-Harm" shows a similar pattern - slightly higher (206.5 v 185.5) but not enough to be significantly so, the pattern could well be reversed if you picked other years. Actually what struck me in looking at these figures is how little suicide rates alter over England. The worst local authority in this period, St Helens (17.9), was less than three times higher than the best, Barking (6.1). It may sound like a lot still, but that's out of over 250 LAs. And if you look at a lot of the differences in other health outcomes, the discrepancy s even more dramatic. [1] These cause of death figures are always quite a bit in arrears because they can only be complied after all the relevant inquests (or at least the vast majority of them) have been completed and this may be one or even two years after the death. There should have been figures for 2016-18 produced last Spring, but those presumably got put to one side because of Covid monopolising Public Health's time and perhaps because of their move to Cabinet Office. [2] All figures per 100,000 population. [3] I'm using this in the statistical sense here as calculated by Public Health, presumably at '95% significance'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Where we do score badly though is "Deaths from Drug Misuse". which were statistically higher at 8.7 versus 4.3 for England (males 14.4 v 6.3; females 3.3 v 2.2). This isn't as bad as Blackpool, which does indeed fare worst (18.5), but it's still alarming. Other figures that stand out include one you might expect. The figure for "Killed or seriously injured" on the roads is almost exactly twice that England at 81.2 versus 40.8. But another one is surprising the other way. Despite being '80,000 alcoholics clinging to a rock' the figure for "Admission episodes for alcohol-related conditions - narrow definition" is 360 as opposed to 632 in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Roxanne said: I said on here that the political future lies with the young and that it's not going to come from a man in a suit from a public school background. The tragedy is that a valuable contribution to the political future could indeed be made by a man in a suit from a public school if only he/they had the qualities you describe. I know of some, and they’re mostly in their 30s. But the portents based on past evidence are poor; what we actually get is the despite-public-school-nonetheless-ignorant entitled bluster and imagination-free ego driven froth of Quayle, the very epitome of what emerges from a public school when no quality exists to be honed in the first place. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Such a waste. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duck of Atholl Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 hours ago, Keiran Hannifin said: Laws can be changed quick, if and when needed. The government made it quick to hug your elderly relatives. We can approve vaccination quick. We can bend rules when it suits, but things take time when it is for no real profit. I would advise that that is more politicians kicking the can, as they either can't get the credit or the reward for doing the job they are paid for. You're being a bit naive in your assessment of law making here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said: You're being a bit naive in your assessment of law making here. Think some confusion with using emergency powers in a pandemic and changing legislation “cause you want to”. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josem Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: The most up to date figures are for 2015-17[1] - you need a rolling average over (at least) three years to avoid individual events skewing the averages - and are available in this Excel spreadsheet about the Public Health Outcomes Framework (PHOF): https://www.gov.im/media/1366580/phof-master.xlsx That's a really fascinating trove of data, thanks for sharing. I wonder how many of the things are due to odd "island" statistical/counting issues. For example, it reports that infant mortality (row 174) is much, much, lower in IOM (0.9) compared to England (3.9). Is it possibly because IOM mothers who are expected to have difficult births are transferred to deliver in Liverpool or elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarley Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Josem said: That's a really fascinating trove of data, thanks for sharing. I wonder how many of the things are due to odd "island" statistical/counting issues. For example, it reports that infant mortality (row 174) is much, much, lower in IOM (0.9) compared to England (3.9). Is it possibly because IOM mothers who are expected to have difficult births are transferred to deliver in Liverpool or elsewhere? If that's true for infant mortality rates, would it not also apply to mortality rates in almost every area as most "difficult" cases are sent across? (Aside from when there simply isn't the time.) Does anyone know how a Manx death in hospital across is recorded? Is it added to the mortality rate here, or there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 12 hours ago, Josem said: I wonder how many of the things are due to odd "island" statistical/counting issues. For example, it reports that infant mortality (row 174) is much, much, lower in IOM (0.9) compared to England (3.9). Is it possibly because IOM mothers who are expected to have difficult births are transferred to deliver in Liverpool or elsewhere? For a lot of these statistics it helps to look up the PHOF Technical Guide so as get the definition. In the case of Infant Mortality (p176) this is defined as "Infant deaths under 1 year of age per 1000 live births". So it may have more to do with very ill small children being flown off-Island for specialised paediatric care. Links are also available from the Health Data page, though updating is obviosly needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Henrietta herself was astounded at the (apparently poor) collection of data here on the island. Collation has been hindered probably with poor systems of recording and compiling the statistics with the technology lagging behind. As for analysis that has been another issue. Behind the stats though are the unfortunate stories of people who have fallen foul or the through cracks in the systems. Surely we should learn more from their experiences to find out why things happen as well as how often. Edited February 1, 2021 by Apple added to make sense 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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