TT 2022 ??

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Pretty minimal really, a handful of seconds at best. When you speed up one corner you tend to create a problem at the next one, such as the effect of bumps or having to brake harder or slow down earlier. The lap record did increase following the Quarry bends improvements in '88 but not by a huge amount. Likewise in 2007 with Brandish. 

So you are basically saying it's better to go slower at one corner so you can go faster at the next?

I appreciate it's not straightforward but I am not really buying your reasoning!

[WTF]

17 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

So you are basically saying it's better to go slower at one corner so you can go faster at the next?

 

in some circumstances it can give you a better line for the second corner , but that doesn't apply to windy or brandish. 

[Non-Believer]

I see the TT programmes are on sale in Shoprite tonight, A5(?) format and £10...

[Max Power]

31 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

So you are basically saying it's better to go slower at one corner so you can go faster at the next?

I appreciate it's not straightforward but I am not really buying your reasoning!

 

11 minutes ago, WTF said:

in some circumstances it can give you a better line for the second corner , but that doesn't apply to windy or brandish. 

Both were third gear corners if I remember correctly, not very heavy braking as speed scrubbed off on gear changes. Now Windy is fourth gear but banked over longer on the smaller diameter of the rear wheel, almost another gear lower. Brandish is similar although a fifth gear corner now, and longer on the smaller diameter of the wheel and difficult to accelerate hard when banked over. They will have both made a difference but not as much as people may think.

[Non-Believer]

39 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

So you are basically saying it's better to go slower at one corner so you can go faster at the next?

That's precisely what the experienced TT exponents do - sacrifice a second here and make up two or three in the following corners.

I can remember 70s star Mick Grant advising newcomers that if they had a "problem" with "a" corner, it wasn't that corner that was the problem - the problem was 3 corners before in setting up for the corner in question.

[Ďouglas Peel]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

I see the TT programmes are on sale in Shoprite tonight, A5(?) format and £10...

Sure beats £18  if thats right, i usually buy Island racer too in the run up to the TT.

[Ghost Ship]

2 hours ago, Youaintseenme said:

Have you ever listened to the TT?  They do exactly what you say with regard to advantage during the race!

ps.  What’s the lap record at the Ulster?  The answer will be in MPH.

What about Indianapolis, or Daytona, or hundreds of others? 

 

Well thanks for confirming that the lap record at Ulster is expressed in mph.  I didn't know that but it seems equally as daft as the TT's obsession with lap speed rather than lap time.  

I'm fairly confident that the lap record at any other circuit you care to mention will primarily be expressed in terms of time rather than speed.  I doubt very much that teams racing anywhere else in the world talk about "adding a fraction of a mph to our lap speed here" as opposed to talking about "we can shave a fraction of a second of our lap time here"

Whenever I watch MotoGP or Superbike racing or endurance car racing (I don't watch F1) I don't think I've ever once heard a commentator talk about laps in any terms other than time.  Never speed.

If you ask what the lap record is at almost every racing circuit in the world the answer you will get will naturally be expressed in minutes and seconds (or just seconds at Indianapolis) and not mph.

But thanks for confirming that they have the same meaningless obsession with lap record speeds at the Ulster as they do at the TT.  

(And yes - I know that the MR commentators do talk about differences between riders in terms of time rather than speed.  That's because time - rather than speed - is the only obvious and sensible way of doing so.  The point I was trying to make is that knowing an average lap speed is significantly less informative and less meaningful than knowing a lap time.  Which is why I don't understand the TT's - and apparently Ulster's - constant focusing on speeds rather than times.  Sorry if my not making that clear confused you... )

[Steve_Christian]

1 hour ago, Ghost Ship said:

Well thanks for confirming that the lap record at Ulster is expressed in mph.  I didn't know that but it seems equally as daft as the TT's obsession with lap speed rather than lap time.  

I'm fairly confident that the lap record at any other circuit you care to mention will primarily be expressed in terms of time rather than speed.  I doubt very much that teams racing anywhere else in the world talk about "adding a fraction of a mph to our lap speed here" as opposed to talking about "we can shave a fraction of a second of our lap time here"

Whenever I watch MotoGP or Superbike racing or endurance car racing (I don't watch F1) I don't think I've ever once heard a commentator talk about laps in any terms other than time.  Never speed.

If you ask what the lap record is at almost every racing circuit in the world the answer you will get will naturally be expressed in minutes and seconds (or just seconds at Indianapolis) and not mph.

But thanks for confirming that they have the same meaningless obsession with lap record speeds at the Ulster as they do at the TT.  

(And yes - I know that the MR commentators do talk about differences between riders in terms of time rather than speed.  That's because time - rather than speed - is the only obvious and sensible way of doing so.  The point I was trying to make is that knowing an average lap speed is significantly less informative and less meaningful than knowing a lap time.  Which is why I don't understand the TT's - and apparently Ulster's - constant focusing on speeds rather than times.  Sorry if my not making that clear confused you... )

Because a short circuit lap is sub 2 minutes. This is 7-8 times that length, more dangerous and therefore requires a different skill set - and therefore 136mph sounds better than 16 minutes and some seconds. The whole point is an AVERAGE speed over real roads for such a long time sounds impressive to enthusiasts and road racing fans. Simples. I’m a road racing fan. I don’t care about the time for a TT lap. I care about the speed. I like to know the lap time for a MotoGP race. Doesn’t impress me particularly even though I respect their skill as much. Nice to know how close they are to the lap record- and as they all start together, nice to know the gap and closure per lap. But 136mph. Average. For over 16 minutes. On real roads. Sorry but that’s bloody impressive. IMHO. 

[0bserver]

All sponsors get a free copy of the TT Programme. 

As a member of the biggest TT sponsor.. the Great Manx Taxpayer... where do I claim my free copy? 

[Steve_Christian]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:55 AM, 0bserver said:

All sponsors get a free copy of the TT Programme. 

As a member of the biggest TT sponsor.. the Great Manx Taxpayer... where do I claim my free copy? 

How can it be free if they are paying for sponsorship of the event? 

[0bserver]

4 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said:

How can it be free if they are paying for sponsorship of the event? 

Complimentary then.

[Steve_Christian]

1 minute ago, 0bserver said:

Complimentary then.

More accurate 

[Max Power]

On 5/5/2022 at 10:17 PM, Ghost Ship said:

Well thanks for confirming that the lap record at Ulster is expressed in mph.  I didn't know that but it seems equally as daft as the TT's obsession with lap speed rather than lap time.  

I'm fairly confident that the lap record at any other circuit you care to mention will primarily be expressed in terms of time rather than speed.  I doubt very much that teams racing anywhere else in the world talk about "adding a fraction of a mph to our lap speed here" as opposed to talking about "we can shave a fraction of a second of our lap time here"

Whenever I watch MotoGP or Superbike racing or endurance car racing (I don't watch F1) I don't think I've ever once heard a commentator talk about laps in any terms other than time.  Never speed.

If you ask what the lap record is at almost every racing circuit in the world the answer you will get will naturally be expressed in minutes and seconds (or just seconds at Indianapolis) and not mph.

But thanks for confirming that they have the same meaningless obsession with lap record speeds at the Ulster as they do at the TT.  

(And yes - I know that the MR commentators do talk about differences between riders in terms of time rather than speed.  That's because time - rather than speed - is the only obvious and sensible way of doing so.  The point I was trying to make is that knowing an average lap speed is significantly less informative and less meaningful than knowing a lap time.  Which is why I don't understand the TT's - and apparently Ulster's - constant focusing on speeds rather than times.  Sorry if my not making that clear confused you... )

Barry Sheene set the fastest motorcycle GP lap record in 1977 at Spa in Belgium, on the long road circuit. It was expressed in MPH at 137.149, but also 220.720KPH. Much shorter circuits and the fact that lap records are set and broken by fractions of a second make quoting speeds in terms of MPH or KPH pretty irrelevant at venues of around 3 miles. The fact that someone has gained an advantage of 0.014 of a second is much easier to understand in these cases.

[Passing Time]

15 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said:

More accurate 

It’s only taken him 838 posts to get something right…

[0bserver]

11 hours ago, Passing Time said:

It’s only taken him 838 posts to get something right…

And you're at 1,242 and still trying... 

 

You'll get there one day. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by 0bserver