TT 2022 ??

[Max Power]

1 hour ago, 0bserver said:

They know they're fucked. This could be an even bigger PR disaster than the Mercer incident.  They kept firing sidecars down the hill for a whole minute after it occurred? Wow.

 

38 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Delays in the red flag system are nothing new, infact it’s probably better now than it’s even been but flag marshals still have to wait for the go ahead from race control before red flags can be displayed. The crowd were shouting ‘red flag, red flag!’ as soon as they saw the fireball, much like they were with the last incident on Bray Hill, it seems to take an absolute age for red flags to go out and it’s horrible to witness someone going full pelt into the scene, should be instant red flag displayed when you can see it’s a big smash and race control informed it’s a red flag incident, not the other way round.

A minute seems an age when things like this happen, but a red flag at the scene wouldn't make the slightest difference, waved yellows slow the riders and warn them to be prepared to stop. A red flag is to halt proceedings rather than a signal to stop at the scene, that's why it is shown around the course. Riders stopped around a blind bend could be more dangerous as riders can pile into each other. The red flag locations are at specific points to prevent this. 

I love this armchair clerk of the coursery!

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Max Power

[WTF]

1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

Legacy lap looked as busy as ever, so not sure about visitor number projections. 

 

as the mountain seems to be  shut every 30 seconds this is probably the only chance some of these saps will have to get a full lap in

[Whiskey]

2 minutes ago, Max Power said:

 

A minute seems an age when things like this happen, but a red flag at the scene wouldn't make the slightest difference, waved yellows slow the riders and warn them to be prepared to stop. A red flag is to halt proceedings rather than a signal to stop at the scene, that's why it is shown around the course. Riders stopped around a blind bend could be more dangerous as riders can pile into each other. The red flag locations are at specific points to prevent this. 

I love this armchair clerk of the coursery!

 

Well said. And if riders are still not slowing properly for waved yellows, then that needs clamping down on. 
 

[Amadeus]

Some shops and stands around grandstand had card payment outages the last few days. Seemed to be partially to do with providers (sumup mostly not working here properly when brought over from uk) and some to do with crappy network. 

[Whiskey]

Network providers being surprised that more people means more demand on the network? Remember when you couldn’t even make a phone call a few years back? 

[Annoymouse]

8 minutes ago, Max Power said:

 

A minute seems an age when things like this happen, but a red flag at the scene wouldn't make the slightest difference, waved yellows slow the riders and warn them to be prepared to stop. A red flag is to halt proceedings rather than a signal to stop at the scene, that's why it is shown around the course. Riders stopped around a blind bend could be more dangerous as riders can pile into each other. The red flag locations are at specific points to prevent this. 

I love this armchair clerk of the coursery!

 

Under a red flag riders don’t just stop wherever they are positioned, they slow down considerably (more so than waved yellows) and pull into the safe areas provided. Waved yellows are still under timed lap conditions so it’s completely counter productive. 

[Newsdesk]

2 hours ago, Passing Time said:

Why would they try to put a feckin "spin" on it. A rider has tragically lost his life but some on here use it as an "I told you so". An average of 6 motorcyclists a week lose their lives in accidents on UK roads. Racers here are aware of the risks involved with motorcycling and not just at the TT. There have been around 120 deaths involving the GP series. They don't go out with the intention of getting killed but sadly, very sadly it happens. What can be done to prevent this? I'd guess not a lot. Course safety has been improved in recent years but not to the point that total protection can be guaranteed

Of course they will try to put some sort of spin on it (they died doing what they loved etc) as at face value it doesn’t look good. What could be done to prevent this? Realistically quite a bit as there have been many sidecar incidents on Agos Leap over the years. They could have planed the road a long time ago as just one suggestion. Equally the new red flag system does not seem to have been adequate and served to fire even more sidecars down Bray Hill into an already major incident. They also seemed to allow the sidecars who had got to Ballacraine and further to turn round and come back into Douglas in the opposite direction. Just like they did with the Steve Mercer incident. So there is likely a lot that need to be analyzed to see what could have been done better. 

[Whiskey]

1 minute ago, Newsdesk said:

Of course they will try to put some sort of spin on it (they died doing what they loved etc) as at face value it doesn’t look good. What could be done to prevent this? Realistically quite a bit as there have been many sidecar incidents on Agos Leap over the years. They could have planed the road a long time ago as just one suggestion. Equally the new red flag system does not seem to have been adequate and served to fire even more sidecars down Bray Hill into an already major incident. They also seemed to allow the sidecars who had got to Ballacraine and further to turn round and come back into Douglas in the opposite direction. Just like they did with the Steve Mercer incident. So there is likely a lot that need to be analyzed to see what could have been done better. 

Where could they have gone if they had turned around? It was quite busy on quarterbridge road. Best continue over the mountain in their escorted groups. 

[Steady Eddie]

1 hour ago, 0bserver said:

Changed when we (the UK) left the EU.

It hasn’t changed substantially as the EU law had already been incorporated into UK law. The over-ridding requirement is that surcharges  need to be proportionate. Paying for a £5 burger with a £1 payment surcharge (a 20% handling fee) on top is not proportionate at all when if you pay for an already overpriced £5 burger with cash the total charge is £5. It’s nothing short of a rip off that I’ll be taking to trading standards on Monday. It’s fine making money but this is absolutely taking the piss. 

[finlo]

1 minute ago, Steady Eddie said:

It hasn’t changed substantially as the EU law had already been incorporated into UK law. The over-ridding requirement is that surcharges  need to be proportionate. Paying for a £5 burger with a £1 payment surcharge (a 20% handling fee) on top is not proportionate at all when if you pay for an already overpriced £5 burger with cash the total charge is £5. It’s nothing short of a rip off that I’ll be taking to trading standards on Monday. It’s fine making money but this is absolutely taking the piss. 

Five pounds for a TT burger you say?

[Annoymouse]

5 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

They also seemed to allow the sidecars who had got to Ballacraine and further to turn round and come back into Douglas in the opposite direction. Just like they did with the Steve Mercer incident. So there is likely a lot that need to be analyzed to see what could have been done better. 

That’s how it’s always been, but they can only return in the opposite direction under the guidance of following a travelling marshal, in the Mercer incident they didn’t wait for a TM.

[Max Power]

7 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

Under a red flag riders don’t just stop wherever they are positioned, they slow down considerably (more so than waved yellows) and pull into the safe areas provided. Waved yellows are still under timed lap conditions so it’s completely counter productive. 

Yes, you just answered your own question. Waved yellow flags mean slow down and be prepared to stop. Which all the riders observed, nobody piled into anything because they were warned by the flags. If a red flag was shown at the scene, you would have had six outfits blocking the road at a place where you can't pull in out of the way, in fact even if they were stopped earlier, that risk still applies. I don't know what you think will be achieved by what you suggest? 

[Max Power]

13 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

 They also seemed to allow the sidecars who had got to Ballacraine and further to turn round and come back into Douglas in the opposite direction. Just like they did with the Steve Mercer incident. So there is likely a lot that need to be analyzed to see what could have been done better. 

No they didn't, nothing travels in reverse direction anymore other than in a life and death situation. Some riders found their own way back via the back roads I assume.

[craggy_steve]

4 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

I don't think I have ever been asked to attend any other event, sporting pr otherwise, where there is an expectation that somebody may die whilst I am watching it.  

I was thinking along these lines early this morning, then I remembered that when living in UK I used to attend a lot of horse trials / one-day and three-day events - and I have seen plenty of people seriously injured or killed while competing in the cross-country phase. I've even won one myself long ago, so I know first hand what it's like, the thrill of riding "on the edge". Competitors take risks, mishaps happen and can be life-changing or fatal. In horse trials the course designers try to make the courses more "technical" these days, to minimise bad falls - but of course they still happen.

Personally I think the TT needs a revamp to make it more relevant for contemporary motorcycling: more classes for lower-speed "greener" racing - fuel limits, more e-bike / zero-emissions endurance classes, more classes for Cat A2 license road bikes - look to the future because the evolution of the petrol superbike has pretty much stalled anyway, and that will naturally reduce speeds and fatalities. Celebration of achievement doesn't need to correlate with highest risk.

[0bserver]

17 minutes ago, Steady Eddie said:

It hasn’t changed substantially as the EU law had already been incorporated into UK law. The over-ridding requirement is that surcharges  need to be proportionate. Paying for a £5 burger with a £1 payment surcharge (a 20% handling fee) on top is not proportionate at all when if you pay for an already overpriced £5 burger with cash the total charge is £5. It’s nothing short of a rip off that I’ll be taking to trading standards on Monday. It’s fine making money but this is absolutely taking the piss. 

You don't know their operating costs. Therefore you cannot say whether it's proportionate or not.