TT 2022 ??

[HeliX]

13 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

As I said. Collective denial.

 

How do you factor in 2 dead already, 5 airlifts, 3 flown to Aintree (1 critical)? Is that part 'as good now as it has ever been'?

Unfortunate, of course. But not grounds for stopping them doing it in the first place.

[HeliX]

9 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

You must have a small circle of acquaintance.

You not being able to imagine any significant number of people who disagree with you is not a fault of mine.

3 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

One homeowner on QB Road that witnessed a flying flaming missile going past her front garden and the aftermath of death and medical treatment may disagree- her and family have been offered counselling / trauma advice  - which is a huge positive but begs the question why should there even be a need for it to be a consideration ?

She's perfectly welcome to disagree. People witness death in all sorts of places. Not least of which includes open roads. Death is the only certainty in life.

Edited June 5, 2022 by HeliX

[0bserver]

3 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

One homeowner on QB Road that witnessed a flying flaming missile going past her front garden and the aftermath of death and medical treatment may disagree- her and family have been offered counselling / trauma advice  - which is a huge positive but begs the question why should there even be a need for it to be a consideration ?

True. The organisers have created a further case for the island's already struggling mental health service. 8 hope the homeowner and their family get the care they need. They should sue the organisers for the trauma.

 

I've always wondered about the cases of riders with young families and mortgages. Who pays for the mortgage when they're dead? Certainly not life insurance as that won't pay out for a death 'on the course'. 

[0bserver]

4 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Unfortunate, of course. But not grounds for stopping them doing it in the first place.

 

4 minutes ago, HeliX said:

She's perfectly welcome to disagree. People witness death in all sorts of places. Not least of which includes open roads. Death is the only certainty in life.

Are you sure you're not trolling?

[HeliX]

4 minutes ago, 0bserver said:

Are you sure you're not trolling?

See, ideologue.

[Bandits]

47 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Almost everyone I know would disagree emphatically with Blade Runner's post. The TT is incredible. The atmosphere this year is great. The community is great.

So you’re saying the death of someone (possibly two people yet) in a 150mph fireball is worth it all then just so a load of people can get pissed and listen to music and watch some racing? 

[Non-Believer]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Unfortunate, of course. But not grounds for stopping them doing it in the first place.

Part of the problem IMHO is the staunch refusal on the part of the organisers (and we know what drives that) to amend and update regulations to reduce speeds. This is a regular thing in such as F1, ok the clever engineers work around it in respect of the cars, but circuits and layouts are changed too in order to improve safety.

The last time I can remember any such technical consideration was 32 years ago when sidecars were limited to 600cc F2 regulations, one of the grounds was that with the lap record at 108mph for the predecessors they were getting too fast! They are now nudging 120, so the safety thinking in that respect has clearly gone out the window.

New airfencing seems to be about the technical limit for the current thinking because it's quite obvious that the speed element, both for solos and sidecars is a total sacred cow. But you can't airfence everywhere.

[Happier diner]

13 minutes ago, HeliX said:

You not being able to imagine any significant number of people who disagree with you is not a fault of mine.

She's perfectly welcome to disagree. People witness death in all sorts of places. Not least of which includes open roads. Death is the only certainty in life.

I didn't say everyone agreed with anyone. My experience is that a lot of people have mixed views. Some are very anti and some very pro. Most that I know are like me. They are confused about it. They are honest. Like me, they love it, but they question it's sustainability in the longer run.

What I was saying that I find it incredible that everyone you know is pro. 

I don't want it to end but I fear it will if these terrible statistics don't improve. Every death is now a nail in the coffin for it. Those who really love it need to get that. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Happier diner

[HeliX]

Just now, Bandits said:

So you’re saying the death of someone (possibly two people yet) in a 150mph fireball is worth it all then just so a load of people can get pissed and listen to music and watch some racing? 

It's interesting how every time a sentence begins "So you're saying..." the rest of it is nothing like what anyone has said.

And no, what I'm saying is that the TT is an incredible spectacle, I am glad it exists and is allowed to exist, the competitors enjoy it and participate willingly, as do the spectators, and it is very unfortunate that some people die in the process. I am in favour of steps to make the course safer. I am not in favour of cancelling it due to risks people are voluntarily taking.

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Part of the problem IMHO is the staunch refusal on the part of the organisers (and we know what drives that) to amend and update regulations to reduce speeds. This is a regular thing in such as F1, ok the clever engineers work around it in respect of the cars, but circuits and layouts are changed too in order to improve safety.

The last time I can remember any such technical consideration was 32 years ago when sidecars were limited to 600cc F2 regulations, one of the grounds was that with the lap record at 108mph for the predecessors they were getting too fast! They are now nudging 120, so the safety thinking in that respect has clearly gone out the window.

New airfencing seems to be about the technical limit for the current thinking because it's quite obvious that the speed element, both for solos and sidecars is a total sacred cow. But you can't airfence everywhere.

There has been far too much focus on lap records over the last two decades, not helped by constantly competing with the Ulster GP for "fastest road race in the world", as if that's anything particularly impressive. Pick 4 straight roads with wide radius corners between them if you want the fastest road race in the world.

[kevster]

23 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

In F1 a fatality is treated with serious concern and changes are made. Cars are slowed down, circuits are slowed down. Cars are improved.

It's a lot easier to make changes to a specially built race circuit than a road race one. Yes, there have been lot's of safety changes to F1 cars, see Schumacher's crash at Monaco the other week. The car broke into pieces, leaving the driver in a protected strong cell as designed. You can't really design that sort of protection into a motorbike or sidecar. 

[0bserver]

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

See, ideologue.

Yet you're the one wedded to the dogma of 'the TT is justified whatever the cost'. 

[Bandits]

Just now, HeliX said:

It's interesting how every time a sentence begins "So you're saying..." the rest of it is nothing like what anyone has said.

And no, what I'm saying is that the TT is an incredible spectacle, I am glad it exists and is allowed to exist, the competitors enjoy it and participate willingly, as do the spectators, and it is very unfortunate that some people die in the process. I am in favour of steps to make the course safer. I am not in favour of cancelling it due to risks people are voluntarily taking.

So you are saying that the death of someone (possibly two people yet) in a 150mph fireball is worth it all then for such an incredible spectacle. Thanks for clarifying.

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, HeliX said:

It's interesting how every time a sentence begins "So you're saying..." the rest of it is nothing like what anyone has said.

And no, what I'm saying is that the TT is an incredible spectacle, I am glad it exists and is allowed to exist, the competitors enjoy it and participate willingly, as do the spectators, and it is very unfortunate that some people die in the process. I am in favour of steps to make the course safer. I am not in favour of cancelling it due to risks people are voluntarily taking.

That's fair enough. But do you want baby steps or big boy steps?

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I didn't say everyone agreed with anyone. My experience is that a lot of people have mixed views. Some are very anti and some very pro. Most that I know are like me. They are confused about it. They are honest. Like me, they love it, but they question it's sustainability in the longer run.

What I was saying that I find it incredible that everyone you know is pro. 

I don't want it to end but I fear it will if these terrible statistics don't improve. Every death is now a nail in the coffin for it. Those who really love it need to get that. 

I did say "almost everyone I know". Of course I also know people who are anti the TT, and people who are more or less indifferent.

People have been saying that each crash/life changing injury/fatality is a nail in the coffin for several decades. I'm glad it hasn't been. If people want to pursue dangerous endeavours in their lives because that's what brings them joy, then let them at it.