TT 2022 ??

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

It's how I read it too. Unfortunately, some posters love to twist words and meanings...

Can't see how I've twisted anything to be honest. It is unfortunate that some people are killed doing something they wanted to do. I'm sorry if you think that word doesn't carry enough "gravitas" or whatever it is you're complaining about.

EDIT: Here was me thinking PT had clocked De Nada's change in the post. Maybe not. I guess anyone else who is upset at the word "unfortunate" can have the above words instead.

Edited June 5, 2022 by HeliX

[Non-Believer]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It'd be hard to undo the years of focus on the absolute highest average mph laptimes, but a sharp change in the bike classes would be a decent way to break away from it. I'm sure someone has the stats on which classes are most dangerous, but at the risk of putting my foot in my mouth I think it's fair to assume it's the faster ones. A move to Twins/Supersport/Naked/Electric would presumably improve safety, and the bikes would better reflect what normal punters are riding anyway.

I watched the Dave Molyneux documentary on ITV4 the other night and he said that during the noughties he himself was sucked into the "must go faster every year" ethos that the TT is now run on, then and now. This approach was also the death of the electric class by allowing one well-funded manufacturer to dominate to the virtual exclusion of the rest.

This dick waving is costing lives and possibly the reputation of the event in damage that some are as yet too blinkered or overpaid to see.

If the course cannot be made safer, then reduce the speed of the machines. Reduce the speed at certain points of the course, as has been done at the NW200. Personally, I'd have a chicane at the approach to Ballagarey and at the end of Cronk y Voddy for starters.

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, Non-Believer said:

I watched the Dave Molyneux documentary on ITV4 the other night and he said that during the noughties he himself was sucked into the "must go faster every year" ethos that the TT is now run on, then and now. This approach was also the death of the electric class by allowing one well-funded manufacturer to dominate to the virtual exclusion of the rest.

This dick waving is costing lives and possibly the reputation of the event in damage that some are as yet too blinkered or overpaid to see.

If the course cannot be made safer, then reduce the speed of the machines. Reduce the speed at certain points of the course, as has been done at the NW200. Personally, I'd have a chicane at the approach to Ballagarey and at the end of Cronk y Voddy for starters.

Now we are talking.👍

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

I watched the Dave Molyneux documentary on ITV4 the other night and he said that during the noughties he himself was sucked into the "must go faster every year" ethos that the TT is now run on, then and now. This approach was also the death of the electric class by allowing one well-funded manufacturer to dominate to the virtual exclusion of the rest.

This dick waving is costing lives and possibly the reputation of the event in damage that some are as yet too blinkered or overpaid to see.

If the course cannot be made safer, then reduce the speed of the machines. Reduce the speed at certain points of the course, as has been done at the NW200. Personally, I'd have a chicane at the approach to Ballagarey and at the end of Cronk y Voddy for starters.

I'd want to see statistics on where the serious crashes have been happening before suggesting course changes, but yes there's only so much that can be done unless you intend to go around creating big runoffs in the middle of people's houses. Lowering the speed of the bikes is easier, can be done instantly with no cost to the organisers, and should have a bigger net effect.

[Blade Runner]

1 minute ago, HeliX said:

This may have stopped the Bray Hill incident, but I'm not sure it would've been a safety improvement in any of the others. This is why I said that evidence-based was the right approach to safety. Installing air fencing isn't going to stop any of the crashes that involve a rider sliding along the floor.

Not may.......Would Have, is correct

Safety barriers stopping bodies hitting things and stopping instantly, turning bodies into what medics call "Mush" would have stopped at least 1 death and one more maiming yesterday on the Quarter Bridge Road.

I have witnessed a biker turning into what I can only describe as soup in front of me many years ago when they hit a old concrete bus stop at very high speed. (Soup is not an exaggeration for those that have not witnessed a high speed "blunt force trauma" death. Ask Mr Flint the ex PC for details).

Your government have the way to stop these "Blunt Force Trauma" injuries but they don't implement them because the TT cant stand the cost. - It is a money making event now, not sporting, remember that.

Your government is liable for the death and carnage and by association so are you.

Enjoy the rest of the Festival..........................

[HeliX]

Just now, Blade Runner said:

Not may.......Would Have, is correct

Safety barriers stopping bodies hitting things and stopping instantly, turning bodies into what medics call "Mush" would have stopped at least 1 death and one more maiming yesterday on the Quarter Bridge Road.

I have witnessed a biker turning into what I can only describe as soup in front of me many years ago when they hit a old concrete bus stop at very high speed. (Soup is not an exaggeration for those that have not witnessed a high speed "blunt force trauma" death. Ask Mr Flint the ex PC for details).

Your government have the way to stop these "Blunt Force Trauma" injuries but they don't implement them because the TT cant stand the cost. - It is a money making event now, not sporting, remember that.

Your government is liable for the death and carnage and by association so are you.

Enjoy the rest of the Festival..........................

Armco barriers aren't soft enough to protect bodies that aren't inside a vehicle, to the best of my understanding. I stand to be corrected.

In my view the marketing as a money making event is a bad thing, but I don't think that stops it being a sporting event. The teams and competitors aren't exactly arsed how much the Govt is making off it. They're here for the love of the course and racing in general.

[manxman34]

5 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

Not may.......Would Have, is correct

Safety barriers stopping bodies hitting things and stopping instantly, turning bodies into what medics call "Mush" would have stopped at least 1 death and one more maiming yesterday on the Quarter Bridge Road.

I have witnessed a biker turning into what I can only describe as soup in front of me many years ago when they hit a old concrete bus stop at very high speed. (Soup is not an exaggeration for those that have not witnessed a high speed "blunt force trauma" death. Ask Mr Flint the ex PC for details).

Your government have the way to stop these "Blunt Force Trauma" injuries but they don't implement them because the TT cant stand the cost. - It is a money making event now, not sporting, remember that.

Your government is liable for the death and carnage and by association so are you.

Enjoy the rest of the Festival..........................

Your last two sentences suggest that your brain has similarly turned to soup

[Blade Runner]

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Armco barriers aren't soft enough to protect bodies that aren't inside a vehicle, to the best of my understanding. I stand to be corrected.

In my view the marketing as a money making event is a bad thing, but I don't think that stops it being a sporting event. The teams and competitors aren't exactly arsed how much the Govt is making off it. They're here for the love of the course and racing in general.

You didn't do Physics at school?

Look at a big Scalextric track, its all barriers, it keeps the cars on the track. Look at Monaco? Its all barriers. same with all the other responsible street circuits , and umpteen F1 courses in built up areas

When you run out of talent and lay it down the road against a Aramco barrier, you generally get away with broken bones and skin grafts - you are bounced off the barrier along the road.

You run out of talent on the TT and you stop against a wall or tree very quickly and are said to have died from Blunt Force Trauma - Read turned into soup.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Blade Runner

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

14 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

I watched the Dave Molyneux documentary on ITV4 the other night and he said that during the noughties he himself was sucked into the "must go faster every year" ethos that the TT is now run on, then and now. This approach was also the death of the electric class by allowing one well-funded manufacturer to dominate to the virtual exclusion of the rest.

This dick waving is costing lives and possibly the reputation of the event in damage that some are as yet too blinkered or overpaid to see.

If the course cannot be made safer, then reduce the speed of the machines. Reduce the speed at certain points of the course, as has been done at the NW200. Personally, I'd have a chicane at the approach to Ballagarey and at the end of Cronk y Voddy for starters.

Did it show him sozzled abusing his wife or misogynistic racist homophobe Nick Crowe spouting rancid vitriol or Dan Sayle drunkenly punching his son in the Sulby Glen #Roadracingheroes

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Blade Runner said:

You didn't do Physics at school?

Look at a big Scalextric track, its all barriers, it keeps the cars on the track. Look at Monaco? Its all barriers. same with all the other responsible street circuits , and umpteen F1 courses in built up areas

When you run out of talent and lay it down the road against a Aramco barrier, you generally get away with broken bones and skin grafts - you are bounced off the barrier along the road.

You run out of talent on the TT and you stop against a wall or tree very quickly and are said to have died from Blunt Force Trauma - Read turned into soup.

Armco barriers aren't going to flex in any meaningful way for a 70kg body. If they did, they wouldn't be fit to stop 1500kg vehicles from ploughing straight through them. Granted they'd be better than a tree, depending the angle you hit them at. For a wall it's likely much of a muchness at any real speed. Which is why I would support lower speed classes over a safety measure that would likely do less good whilst being considerably more difficult to implement..

[Blade Runner]

Just now, HeliX said:

Armco barriers aren't going to flex in any meaningful way for a 70kg body. If they did, they wouldn't be fit to stop 1500kg vehicles from ploughing straight through them. Granted they'd be better than a tree, depending the angle you hit them at. For a wall it's likely much of a muchness at any real speed. Which is why I would support lower speed classes over a safety measure that would likely do less good whilst being considerably more difficult to implement..

You really don't get physics, or even maths with angles do you. .........................

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Blade Runner said:

You really don't get physics, or even maths with angles do you. .........................

I'm sure you'll provide a reasonable explanation of why sliding into solid armco at 140mph is better than sliding into a solid wall at 140mph rather than making another page of sniping comments.

[HeliX]

Actually, I'd prefer you didn't. Installing 37 miles of armco to fractionally improve outcomes in a small number of specific types of impact is a very stupid idea. Just use slower bike classes.

[paswt]

20 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I'd want to see statistics on where the serious crashes have been happening before suggesting course changes,

The CoC/ motorsport team /TTMA ltd demonstrably do not wish to see statistics on serious crashes  given that after 5 "offs" @ 'Casey's" including 2 fatals ( 2014 & 2018) they still refuse to even discuss the installation of air fencing .

Similarly after 4 "offs" @ "Black Hut" ( 1 with 2 riders down and 1 with 3 riders ) where riders suffered severe lower leg injuries when coming into contact with the dwarf wall the CoC etc etc rejected the request to fix boarding to said wall.

Just saying😡

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, paswt said:

The CoC/ motorsport team /TTMA ltd demonstrably do not wish to see statistics on serious crashes  given that after 5 "offs" @ 'Casey's" including 2 fatals ( 2014 & 2018) they still refuse to even discuss the installation of air fencing .

Similarly after 4 "offs" @ "Black Hut" ( 1 with 2 riders down and 1 with 3 riders ) where riders suffered severe lower leg injuries when coming into contact with the dwarf wall the CoC etc etc rejected the request to fix boarding to said wall.

Just saying😡

The stats should probably be public domain given the Govt participation in the TT.