0bserver Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, HeliX said: The stats should probably be public domain given the Govt participation in the TT. They're not FOI-able because they tell you they don't keep records. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nellie Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 18 minutes ago, HeliX said: The stats should probably be public domain given the Govt participation in the TT. When I marshalled regularly, in the late 90's/noughties, there was a rudimentary table of incident locations, by year, in the back of the handbook which we were all given at that time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 46 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said: Did it show him sozzled abusing his wife or misogynistic racist homophobe Nick Crowe spouting rancid vitriol or Dan Sayle drunkenly punching his son in the Sulby Glen #Roadracingheroes I'm well aware of this but it wasn't part of the programme nor would it be relevant to the topic being discussed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 So, @HeliX @Passing Time et al. If you can clear it up. How many deaths are acceptable/unfortunate in a fortnight? Is it less than 10? Less than 15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, 0bserver said: So, @HeliX @Passing Time et al. If you can clear it up. How many deaths are acceptable/unfortunate in a fortnight? Is it less than 10? Less than 15? There isn't a number. Zero would be ideal, obviously. But there's a strong chance that there will be some. And given they all enter into it freely, and knowing what the outcome could be, I don't think it's my business to get in the way of it. I don't begrudge anyone entering into activities that are dangerous to themselves. If that's what makes their life happy and interesting, then that's their prerogative. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Knowing what it costs to rent the Villa out I imagine the Government are charging plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 33 minutes ago, HeliX said: The stats should probably be public domain given the Govt participation in the TT. Fatalities alone would be easy enough to compile from the Wiki record on course fatalities. And there'd be no shortage of local knowledge from marshals and local event enthusiasts to fill in the gaps on the serious injuries side of things, if push came to shove. For them to say that they don't keep records is utter bollocks, all this is accountable as being public money. They'd just rather that it wasn't in the public domain. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Regarding the stats... The wiki list of fatalities includes the TT and MGP/Classic TT (or whatever it is branded as now). 2005 was the worst year on the course. I am not 100% certain but haven't the number of fatalities per event remained fairly consistent since the races began? That suggests that whilst speeds have increased there must have been some safety improvements otherwise I would have expected the number of fatalities to increase in line with the speed. I also don't understand the argument about armco. I think that armco and fencing would increase protection for spectators but I can't see it changing much for a rider. Bikes simply don't have the ability to dissipate energy in the same way as a race car. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I am not 100% certain but haven't the number of fatalities per event remained fairly consistent since the races began? That suggests that whilst speeds have increased there must have been some safety improvements otherwise I would have expected the number of fatalities to increase in line with the speed. PPE and medical improvements, maybe. Not sure whether all of the apparent lack of increase can be attributed to those though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 They’ve reduced the number of riders in the race. They’ve also introduced a special license to stop any old guy with a bike and a death wish entering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 27 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Fatalities alone would be easy enough to compile from the Wiki record on course fatalities. And there'd be no shortage of local knowledge from marshals and local event enthusiasts to fill in the gaps on the serious injuries side of things, if push came to shove. For them to say that they don't keep records is utter bollocks, all this is accountable as being public money. They'd just rather that it wasn't in the public domain. Of course there are records, it's ridiculous to say that. Every incident is investigated and apart from that, there is a complete record of everything that happens during the event, down to which flags are displayed where, which vehicles move and when etc etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Christian Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 hour ago, paswt said: The CoC/ motorsport team /TTMA ltd demonstrably do not wish to see statistics on serious crashes given that after 5 "offs" @ 'Casey's" including 2 fatals ( 2014 & 2018) they still refuse to even discuss the installation of air fencing . Similarly after 4 "offs" @ "Black Hut" ( 1 with 2 riders down and 1 with 3 riders ) where riders suffered severe lower leg injuries when coming into contact with the dwarf wall the CoC etc etc rejected the request to fix boarding to said wall. Just saying😡 The TTMA are not political or anything of the sort. They provide training and marshals admin and sign of/tracking/allocation to enable the races to happen, as well as support to marshals post ‘incident’. Please don’t try and bring them to to some sort of conspiracy for hiding data or stats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said: The TTMA are not political or anything of the sort. They provide training and marshals admin and sign of/tracking/allocation to enable the races to happen, as well as support to marshals post ‘incident’. Please don’t try and bring them to to some sort of conspiracy for hiding data or stats. I think you missed the point there. @paswt referred to TTMA ltd, the newly created organisation with (so he has alleged) rules that prevent individuals speaking out. If this is true, then they become part of any system that prevents open analysis of accident data. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 30 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said: The TTMA are not political or anything of the sort. They provide training and marshals admin and sign of/tracking/allocation to enable the races to happen, as well as support to marshals post ‘incident’. Please don’t try and bring them to to some sort of conspiracy for hiding data or stats. By their very involvement in the TT the TTMA are political. Perhaps not intentionally, but political all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 36 minutes ago, Max Power said: Of course there are records, it's ridiculous to say that. Every incident is investigated and apart from that, there is a complete record of everything that happens during the event, down to which flags are displayed where, which vehicles move and when etc etc. Except in the Mecer case it would seem! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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