Annoymouse Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: F1 seems to manage to maintain its draw despite cars being made intentionally slower - as long as the racing is close. Which it should be if slower bikes were used. It could still lose some appeal from a spectacle POV but I'm willing to take that risk. They ride the slower bikes just as hard if not harder, because it’s about maintaining corner speed and carrying the momentum. For as long as bikes are being ridden on the ragged edge there will be accidents, top speed doesn’t really matter, come off at 120mph or 180mph and the results will be somewhat similar I imagine. What about these air bag suits? What’s the deal? Did I hear right that Sam West was wearing one and he believes it prevented further injury in his recent crash? In which case shouldn’t all racers be wearing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Max Power said: I have to admit that it is a conundrum, some of the worst fatal injuries I have ever seen were sustained in a crash involving a 125cc machine, capable of around 130 mph. The poor guy was just unlucky in that he fell heavily from a great height after being catapulted off his bike when he lost control. The fatality today was on a much lower powered machine, around 140bhp, compared to around 220/230bhp of a Superbike. I'm always dubious about claims that the bigger capacities are more dangerous, you can use the power by not pushing too hard on the tighter bends, whereas on a lower powered machine, if you want to win, you need to ride hard and close to the limit continuously. It makes little difference though. The 600cc lap record got pushed today to within a few mph of that set for the bigger bikes with nearly twice the power. Both classes are outstripping the course speedwise, if not the abilities of some to ride them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, Max Power said: I have to admit that it is a conundrum, some of the worst fatal injuries I have ever seen were sustained in a crash involving a 125cc machine, capable of around 130 mph. The poor guy was just unlucky in that he fell heavily from a great height after being catapulted off his bike when he lost control. The fatality today was on a much lower powered machine, around 140bhp, compared to around 220/230bhp of a Superbike. I'm always dubious about claims that the bigger capacities are more dangerous, you can use the power by not pushing too hard on the tighter bends, whereas on a lower powered machine, if you want to win, you need to ride hard and close to the limit continuously. This is something that the stats are almost certainly available for. The last paragraph I'm not sure about - maybe a decade ago, but I don't think there's anywhere that Hicky and Harrison are holding back on the 1000cc machines the last few TTs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Annoymouse said: They ride the slower bikes just as hard if not harder, because it’s about maintaining corner speed and carrying the momentum. For as long as bikes are being ridden on the ragged edge there will be accidents, top speed doesn’t really matter, come off at 120mph or 180mph and the results will be somewhat similar I imagine. What about these air bag suits? What’s the deal? Did I hear right that Sam West was wearing one and he believes it prevented further injury in his recent crash? In which case shouldn’t all racers be wearing them? I'm not convinced - I think the current top runners are pushing just as hard on the Superbikes now. That said, it's not usually the top runners who come a cropper. Also listening to interviews after Supersport races, they all remark how much more fun the Supersports are... Other than the very tall boys of course. Air bag suits are good - and I'd expect a lot of the grid are using them. Perhaps it should be mandatory though, like a helmet that meets certain specs is. Edited June 6, 2022 by HeliX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 15 minutes ago, Kopek said: say 'look at us' we've stopped these races because of the unacceptable death rate! We win? Where's the line between acceptable and unacceptable? At what point do we restrict people's behaviour for safety reasons? And not just in relation to the TT, either... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, HeliX said: This is something that the stats are almost certainly available for. The last paragraph I'm not sure about - maybe a decade ago, but I don't think there's anywhere that Hicky and Harrison are holding back on the 1000cc machines the last few TTs... And that’s the problem. It feels like Hicky is going 101% on the bike right now, while McG, purely by observing his riding style, never seemed to go above 95% even in his best races. Fast, but steady. Michael D is a totally different story again. All or nothing, the Dunlop way. Pure and absolute aggression on two wheels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: but I don't think there's anywhere that Hicky and Harrison are holding back on the 1000cc machines the last few TTs... Hicky is the first to say he holds some back in reserve, he isn’t interested in setting lap records and only rides as hard as he feels he needs to, a lot of the top riders are similar. I’d say it’s much harder for privateers though. I don’t think races should be won or lost in a pit stops, riders shouldn’t have to make up time nor should privateers lose out from not having a lightening fast pit crew, If the slowest pit crew is 60 seconds then that’s what every pit stop should be calculated as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Amadeus said: And that’s the problem. It feels like Hicky is going 101% on the bike right now, while McG, purely by observing his riding style, never seemed to go above 95% even in his best races. Fast, but steady. Michael D is a totally different story again. All or nothing, the Dunlop way. Pure and absolute aggression on two wheels. It may feel like it, but watching the live footage today it was obvious that the top riders were being cautious, quite rightly of course. The reason Hickman is so in control is that he has honed his skills recently at BSB level and is in a different zone to the majority, his brain is thinking at a speed which makes what he does possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, HeliX said: Where's the line between acceptable and unacceptable? At what point do we restrict people's behaviour for safety reasons? And not just in relation to the TT, either... Bear Baiting, Fox Hunting, Bull Fighting, Cock Fighting, using the whip in Horse Racing, Dog fighting etc etc. These are all areas that WE have decided are not morally acceptable to us anymore!!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, HeliX said: Where's the line between acceptable and unacceptable? At what point do we restrict people's behaviour for safety reasons? And not just in relation to the TT, either... You mean things like seatbelts, crash helmets, speed limits, safety harnesses, air traffic controllers, pilots’ licences, making sure the loading door on the ferry is shut. It’s all the stuff of crazy nightmares. It’ll never happen though. And doesn’t need to, so long as people know the risks. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kopek said: Bear Baiting, Fox Hunting, Bull Fighting, Cock Fighting, using the whip in Horse Racing, Dog fighting etc etc. These are all areas that WE have decided are not morally acceptable to us anymore!!! Yeah, they all involve torturing animals. Not sure I see the relation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said: You mean things like seatbelts, crash helmets, speed limits, safety harnesses, air traffic controllers, pilots’ licences, making sure the loading door on the ferry is shut. It’s all the stuff of crazy nightmares. It’ll never happen though. And doesn’t need to, so long as people know the risks. Do any of those things prevent someone from engaging in an activity, or do they just make the activity safer? Answer on a postcard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, HeliX said: Air bag suits are good - and I'd expect a lot of the grid are using them. Perhaps it should be mandatory though, like a helmet that meets certain specs is. If it’s proven they prevent injuries then yes they absolutely should be mandatory, is there anyone not wearing one for a slight weight advantage?, we keep being told every kilo counts but safety shouldn’t be scrimped on. Could bikes also be fitted with some sort of kill switch/tilt switch that if it’s involved in a big smash it automatically signals to race control?, something GPS/telematics based like a black box? Edited June 6, 2022 by Annoymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: Do any of those things prevent someone from engaging in an activity, or do they just make the activity safer? Answer on a postcard... I’m prevented from flying an aeroplane. I’m prevented from watching YouTube while I drive. I’m prevented from playing golf in strand street. I’m prevented from firing a rifle at the moon from my bedroom window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said: I’m prevented from flying an aeroplane. I’m prevented from watching YouTube while I drive. I’m prevented from playing golf in strand street. I’m prevented from firing a rifle at the moon from my bedroom window. So again a list of activities that can be participated in, with conditions on your participation. Like... I dunno, a race with restrictions on entries and required equipment. These are not the same as blanket banning the activity. People are allowed to fly planes. People are allowed to watch YouTube. People are allowed to drive cars. You're allowed to be a very silly sausages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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