TT 2022 ??

[0bserver]

5 minutes ago, Banker said:

Unfortunately there’s all the idiots posting names on Facebook before anyone is informed officially, normally there’s a positive ID in the morgue for deaths but maybe injuries were too bad?

End of the day if the TT organisers are going to allow people to barrel towards walls at 150mph+ on motorbikes, then they should of had fail safe procedures in place to identify bodies after they hit walls at 150mph+ on motorbikes. It's their event, they need to own the consequences of holding it. 

[HeliX]

Just now, 0bserver said:

they should of had fail safe procedures in place to identify bodies after they hit walls at 150mph+

Such as?

[Annoymouse]

4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

 

It really isn’t as simple as that, is it?

The organisers wouldn’t have done the identifying themselves.

You've got a dead body and an unconscious patient. Neither can tell you. They’re in identical racing suits/helmets. They’ve been involved in a high impact crash and an intense fire.

The usual procedure would be a family member, assuming that’s not possible if family were in Italy, then a support team member who knew them. Someone will have given a positive identification.

As for the hospitals, they’ll have been given a name. How can they check? It’s unlikely that either had ever been treated before in IoM or Liverpool.

Its very unfortunate, but you can’t blame either the organisers or the hospitals.

I understand in an emergency situation when a patient is brought in and gets treated for life threatening conditions, the intention is to make them stable, long before worrying about identifying them, it’s a life and death situation.

If medical records aren’t transferred over at any point, how long does a patient stay unidentified for?

For the deceased and it sounds so disrespectful to say this but if they can’t be identified for whatever reason, would they not also use medical records or dental records to confirm their ID?

I’d like to think some medical information and identifying marks are retained as some sort of race passport, if not this highlights a huge weakness in the system.

[0bserver]

26 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Its very unfortunate, but you can’t blame either the organisers or the hospitals.

If you're going to have an event with high speed deaths year after year, then you put procedures in place. 

This should never have happened. If they couldn't make a 100% ID then don't announce it as that person. 

[HiVibes]

According to Manx Radio news it happened at 'argos leap' and dead guy is 'Chanel', not really the time to be doing the mistaken identity in-jokes.

[Annoymouse]

I’m going to take a step back from this discussion as I think I’ve said enough already, I was just so shocked reading the news but I don’t know all the facts and cannot continue posting on assumptions, discussing the exact details of the incident just seems so disrespectful at this time, I would imagine it’s tragic enough for the families involved without discussing the incident details.

That said I would like to think if I was racing at any circuit that should I be involved in an incident I would be able to be identified quickly and accurately, if there isn’t fail safe measures in place then there should be, I would hate for my family to go through something like this.

 

[John Wright]

16 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

If medical records aren’t transferred over at any point, how long does a patient stay unidentified for?

For the deceased and it sounds so disrespectful to say this but if they can’t be identified for whatever reason, would they not also use medical records or dental records to confirm their ID?

Medical records stay where you are treated. There’s no unified patient medical record as such, even for England.

Information may be shared, as required.

In this case the primary care and any hospital records were in Italy. There are complex questions of GDPR and consent, for the living, as well as a language barrier. For the deceased the forensic route may be easier? But it only happened Saturday. GP’s and dentists don’t work Sundays, even in Italy.

Ive no idea what ID requirements are for F1, or MotoGP, or other side car events are. But I’d expect them to be universal. But if, as I expect, they’re dog tags and they become separated from both the riders…

[wrighty]

18 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Such as?

RFID chips in helmets, leathers. Photo ID, lists of tattoos, piercings, birthmarks etc on the application forms. Review of video evidence of the incident in cases of doubt before formal ID declared. For example. Other ways are possible. 
 

ETA - you fill in basic medical information when sending kids on school trips. I would think, for something as likely to result in medical treatment as the TT, far more detailed information on the racers’ state of health should be included in the application process. Full medical and dental records perhaps. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by wrighty

[Happier diner]

26 minutes ago, John Wright said:

They seem to have had identity confirmed though. Wrongly. But that’s not the organisers fault. It’d usually be police/coroners officer who would deal with that. It wouldn’t be done at scene, normally.

That's true John. But will the outside world view organisers/police/coroners office as 'The Isle of Man'?

You would know better, but before a name is released would you expect the identity to have been established beyond any reasonable doubt. Clearly it was not beyond reasonable doubt, and, looking at the wording, still isn't.

If there was doubt, they should not have released a name.

[Non-Believer]

35 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

Not sure if something happened or they are just over eager today, but security turning away crew who didn’t have a picture on their team pass (many don’t bother and haven’t for the whole last week) is a bit odd. Who else would carry fuel and tyres up there? Also not checking everyone. Seems to be totally random. Ride past on a scooter: no checks. Walk past pulling kit for the bike: get checked. Then get checked again going to park ferme five meters later. Not that they actually check if the person on the picture is the person wearing the pass. Seems more like about a picture being on there. Feels like they got instructions from above on this, and apparently some high up g4s person was even confiscating passes with no pictures on them. 

Identification measure to prevent potential theft of equipment by thieves masquerading as crew? Theft was being reported earlier.

[Kopek]

I  think the  Isle of Mans reputation is the least important part of this debacle?

Imagine the Chanal family arriving in Liverpool to be with their Son/Brother and then the truth being realised by Oliviers family.

[Shake me up Judy]

I'd expect Aintree Hospital to make an announcement, perhaps even later today. This is not good. 

[HeliX]

9 minutes ago, wrighty said:

RFID chips in helmets, leathers. Photo ID, lists of tattoos, piercings, birthmarks etc on the application forms. Review of video evidence of the incident in cases of doubt before formal ID declared. For example. Other ways are possible. 
 

ETA - you fill in basic medical information when sending kids on school trips. I would think, for something as likely to result in medical treatment as the TT, far more detailed information on the racers’ state of health should be included in the application process. Full medical and dental records perhaps. 

I think you can increase the reliability of identification, but I don't think any of those measures would be absolute guarantees in sidecar crashes with significant fire and trauma.

[Roger Mexico]

31 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Its very unfortunate, but you can’t blame either the organisers or the hospitals.

Not the hospitals of course, they can only work with the information they are given and can't release anything extra they discover without the correct authorisation.  But the organisers should have known.  Not just because they set the rules and enforce them to make sure this sort of thing can't happen, but mainly because it's been four days.

You can see how such a thing could arise in the heat of the moment and when treatment is the top priority.  But they've had four days to sort this out and set the record straight.  It's clear they must have known at least some time before, as the families had been informed  last night.  But they must have thought that if they kept quiet it would all go away.  Only the mistaken belief that the Aintree patient had died forced them to react.

And even now the reaction is that everyone must keep quiet until all the facts are known.  While making sure that they never will be.

[0bserver]

1 minute ago, Kopek said:

I  think the  Isle of Mans reputation is the least important part of this debacle?

Imagine the Chanal family arriving in Liverpool to be with their Son/Brother and then the truth being realised by Oliviers family.

It's all interwoven now in this morbid little web the TT has woven. 

But if you're going to allow this type of 'event' to take place then you own the results, good and bad.

It's unforgiveable that a family has been put in this position.