TT 2022 ??

[AOR]

11 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

He’s one of the BBCs motorsport reporters and he did a lot of the NW200 reporting. Of course he’s an expert. Or are you claiming that you’re a better self appointed anonymous forum expert then someone who is paid by the BBC to provide reportage on high profile motorcycling events?

He's a 'talking head' commentator. He has an opinion - fair enough. But it is no more valid than anyone else's. Particularly - particularly -   the apocryphal 'man in the pub' who is from the Isle of Man, lived here all his life.

eta:

I am not claiming expertise here. I am claiming to be from the Isle of Man and Manx, and my opinion - which I have not yet expressed - is as valid, well more so, than a BBC employee who as far as I know has not been to the TT let alone the Isle of Man

We'll see how the people involved with the NW200 think about his opinions shall we.

Edited June 12, 2022 by AOR

[John Wright]

18 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Sidecars only represent a small part of the entry and number of laps completed too Roger. This has to be considered.

 

11 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I think the only way to get any sense out of such stats is going to be to figure it out per x number of competitor miles.

The problem is the small sample size. Like much Manx data, and many Manx statistics, you only need one year out of the ordinary to make things change,  from really good to really bad. 

It’s trends, long term, that are important. One year does not a trend make.

[Roger Mexico]

8 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Sidecars only represent a small part of the entry and number of laps completed too Roger. This has to be considered.

It very possible that sidecars are more dangerous per person per mile or whatever metric you want to use, but my point was that getting rid of the sidecars isn't going to make much difference to the overall death toll and anyone seeing it as 'one quick fix' is deluded.

Of course if you want to go down the route of banning things based on deaths per mile travelled, it's an excellent argument for banning all motorcycle use completely:

[HiVibes]

27 minutes ago, AOR said:

I am claiming to be from the Isle of Man and Manx, and my opinion - which I have not yet expressed - is as valid, well more so, than a BBC employee who as far as I know has not been to the TT let alone the Isle of Man

I am Manxer than you, so I count for 2.

[Max Power]

6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It very possible that sidecars are more dangerous per person per mile or whatever metric you want to use, but my point was that getting rid of the sidecars isn't going to make much difference to the overall death toll and anyone seeing it as 'one quick fix' is deluded.

Of course if you want to go down the route of banning things based on deaths per mile travelled, it's an excellent argument for banning all motorcycle use completely:

That is very true, and always has been. The EU did begin to make a move in this direction around fifteen years ago but settled on a more stealthy approach. They made the casual ownership experience very difficult so that only those prepared to jump through quite a lot of hoops would get involved.  

[HeliX]

12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It very possible that sidecars are more dangerous per person per mile or whatever metric you want to use, but my point was that getting rid of the sidecars isn't going to make much difference to the overall death toll and anyone seeing it as 'one quick fix' is deluded.

Of course if you want to go down the route of banning things based on deaths per mile travelled, it's an excellent argument for banning all motorcycle use completely:

And walking and cycling, because I've decided that's where my risk appetite ends and now I want to force it on everyone else too.

[WTF]

25 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It very possible that sidecars are more dangerous per person per mile or whatever metric you want to use, but my point was that getting rid of the sidecars isn't going to make much difference to the overall death toll and anyone seeing it as 'one quick fix' is deluded.

Of course if you want to go down the route of banning things based on deaths per mile travelled, it's an excellent argument for banning all motorcycle use completely:

but how many of these where single vehicle incidents or same vehicle incidents ?      'think once, think twice, think bike' .    there was an ad campaign back in the 70's ??  to try and get car drivers to check for motor cycles which suggests that many motor cycle incidents were caused by other vehicles pulling out on them rather than them being the  reason they crashed.     

[manxman1980]

One of the concerns I have with.tge sidecars is that they seem to be viewed by race officials as a secondary concern.

They always seem to be class that has their practice time severely reduced in favour of the solos.

I dont have facts to back that up but it's a gut feel that they get much less practice time.  As a result I am not surprised that this would result in more racing incidents.

[Roger Mexico]

1 minute ago, WTF said:

but how many of these where single vehicle incidents or same vehicle incidents ?      'think once, think twice, think bike' .    there was an ad campaign back in the 70's ??  to try and get car drivers to check for motor cycles which suggests that many motor cycle incidents were caused by other vehicles pulling out on them rather than them being the  reason they crashed.     

Oh quite, that's one reason why motorcyclists are classified as vulnerable.  But they're particularly vulnerable because of speed.  If you look at the previous graph in my link, the rate of casualties among cyclists isn't much less, but when it comes to fatalities, the rate drops to about a quarter. 

If it was just due to the carelessness of other drivers I suspect the difference wouldn't be so great.  But of course any campaigns to get drivers to check for cyclists will also benefit the motorcyclists.

[kevster]

Telegraph article today

Why bereaved families want the racing to go on

[Gladys]

A question from a position of complete ignorance, but what is the purpose of sidecar races?   They aren't machines that are ordinarily used on the roads, they are specifically built for competing, aren't they? 

I get why solo races are used as a means of displaying performance of motorcycles as a test and selling point, but sidecars? 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Gladys
Typo

[Kopek]

Semantics?  A person killed in an accident is the end for that person. How their death relates statistically to others killed in similar or different circumstances is immaterial to that person. We tend to forget when playing with statistics, how many laps, how many competitors etc. , there is a person involved directly in this!

[kevster]

1 minute ago, Roxanne said:

That’s a lovely article an encapsulates the feelings that so many struggle to understand or are able to come to terms with. Thanks for sharing Kevster. 

That's exactly what I thought

[HiVibes]

34 minutes ago, kevster said:

Telegraph article today

Why bereaved families want the racing to go on

Why should the bereaved families have any input on whether it continues? Their approach to grief does not give them a right to greenlight further death and maiming of others.

[WTF]

7 minutes ago, HiVibes said:

Why should the bereaved families have any input on whether it continues? Their approach to grief does not give them a right to greenlight further death and maiming of others.

in much the same way that you don't have the right to red light whether it continues.