TT 2022 ??

[Newsdesk]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Well we had most arrests!!

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/locals-top-arrest-tally-over-tt-fortnight/

Gary Roberts is a sad prick. 

[Newbie]

54 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

This is accurate.

Well I can say with absolute certainty that on the day of the crash, before any identification had been made, that no medic from the tower, or anywhere else, spoke to the team/friends of either competitor, let alone berated them about dog tags. I would also go back to the point that at that stage there was no suggestion or knowledge of any misidentification, related to dog tags or anything else. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Newbie

[forestboy]

9 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

Gary Roberts is a sad prick. 

Why?
Maybe some local residents are sad pricks!

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Newbie said:

I hadn't seen that report Roger, so thanks for posting the link to it. All I can say is that it is mis-reported, and I would not want to speculate on how that might have happened.

An obvious question is why would the body of a deceased competitor, someone that was the subject of a Coroner's Inquiry here on the Isle of Man, be transported to Liverpool whilst the Coroner's investigations were ongoing? The answer is that it wouldn't and it wasn't.

Well the question is whether we should believe the words of family members as reported in their local paper, giving an account of what happened to them.  Or should we believe people posting anonymously on the internet, without supporting information, who claim that they know what must have happened and therefore it must be true.

It's fairly common for the Coroner of Inquests to open an inquest and then adjourn it after initial evidence has been given, so that the body can be released to family.  Under those circumstances TT compulsory insurance might cover the body being moved to England for the family to collect.  In this case the formalities could have been done on the Monday and the family informed (they would have been informed of the death on Saturday).  It's a bit faster than the usual process, but possible.  The brother then flies over on Tuesday and realises the mistake, probably informing the Chanal family directly - the brother also raced and the families come from the same area.  

This would explain the late night tweet from the Chanal family that caused all the confusion on Wednesday morning.  If the organisers had informed the families of the mix-up, they would have issued the statement the previous day or first thing in the morning, when we now know both the families knew, rather than not coming up with something till 1130 am on Wednesday.  The only explanation for such tardiness is that the families knew first and weren't informed by the organisers despite what the latter say.

[2112]

1 hour ago, Whiskey said:

Cool, what do we win? 

More legislation and controls on the population as requested by the CC Gary Roberts. 

[Annoymouse]

39 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You won’t. Because a report isn’t being prepared. The Coroner’s Officer will be gathering evidence to present to a sitting of the Coroners Court.

Its normally divided into two hearings.

1. who, when, where, how. That’s formal. The how is medical cause of death.  That allows release of body for burial and issue of temporary death certificate.

2. in cases such as this an enquiry, in public, with witnesses, in front of a jury. At the end of which a verdict will be brought in and the coroner may give a narrative verdict.

1. will happen fairly soon. 2. Will wait until the other enquiries are completed, or, at least rely in part on their evidence.

Thanks for your knowledge John, was hoping it might be wrapped up sooner.

[display name]

36 minutes ago, Newsdesk said:

Gary Roberts is a sad prick. 

Give him a sports car and a pension,he'll be on here before you can say pompous has been

[Kopek]

43 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

In this case the formalities could have been done on the Monday

Surely in a case such as this the Coroners Office would have sprung into action on the Saturday evening? Sunday at least? So there should not have been that 3day delay.

OK i'lll say it, who was responsible for the identification? The Coroners Office, the Police, the Medics on the scene, the medics at Nobles, the medics at Walton?????????

By asking for a silence on the matter the Coroner looks /appears / seems to be trying to protect some body or other from criticism? Why, it's an unfortunate mistake, it doesn't change the outcome for the two riders? It's embarrassing for the interchange with the two Families but I'm sure they had other things on their minds on Saturday evening.

Is it any wonder that speculation arises?

[Roger Mexico]

As I've frequently observed, there's nothing that tells you so much that something is going on that the sound of all the usual suspects running around shouting "There's nothing to see here!".  And denouncing anyone who disagrees as a conspiracy theorist.

[milestone 11]

3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well yes, that's why I said that the translation was via Google translate and gave the original French.  I await any corrections from fluent or native speakers.  In my experience newspaper articles usually translate fairly well as they have simple structures, but there may be nuances missing.  But you can't decide to disregard it on general grounds without suggesting improvements.

It's reasonably accurate Roger, there are a few words incorrect but nothing of any consequence, i.e. Choc in this context is crash rather than shock. Regardless, it seems impossible to comprehend the quote's authenticity.

[Newbie]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's fairly common for the Coroner of Inquests to open an inquest and then adjourn it after initial evidence has been given, so that the body can be released to family.  Under those circumstances TT compulsory insurance might cover the body being moved to England for the family to collect.  In this case the formalities could have been done on the Monday and the family informed (they would have been informed of the death on Saturday).  It's a bit faster than the usual process, but possible.  The brother then flies over on Tuesday and realises the mistake, probably informing the Chanal family directly - the brother also raced and the families come from the same area.  

So you think that the sequence of events might have been that the fatal crash happened on the Saturday, the Coroner opened the inquest on the Monday and established the identity (erroneously as it turned out) and cause of death, and then adjourned the inquest.  The Coroner then issued a temporary death certificate (in the wrong name presumably) to allow release of the body. The body was then transferred to a hospital in Liverpool, rather than being dealt with by a Funeral Director (as would more usually happen). The hospital then contacted the family for the purposes of identifying the body, even though the Coroner had already established an identity at the inquest. 

It is the only way it could have happened if the newspaper article is correct, but it seems unlikely.

[kevster]

1 hour ago, Youaintseenme said:

1 hour ago, Kopek said:

Only a conspiracy theorist would come to that conclusion.

 

 

I thought it was in the house rules that every thread that even remotely concerned IoMG had to involve a conspiracy of some kind 

[Roger Mexico]

10 minutes ago, Newbie said:

So you think that the sequence of events might have been that the fatal crash happened on the Saturday, the Coroner opened the inquest on the Monday and established the identity (erroneously as it turned out) and cause of death, and then adjourned the inquest.  The Coroner then issued a temporary death certificate (in the wrong name presumably) to allow release of the body. The body was then transferred to a hospital in Liverpool, rather than being dealt with by a Funeral Director (as would more usually happen). The hospital then contacted the family for the purposes of identifying the body, even though the Coroner had already established an identity at the inquest. 

It is the only way it could have happened if the newspaper article is correct, but it seems unlikely.

The newspaper article may be a bit garbled and I did wonder if the brother went first to the Island, realised the mistake and then went to the hospital in Liverpool.  As I said it's quite quick to do even a preliminary inquest, though it's possible the Coroner was sitting anyway on the Monday and decided to expedite matters.  But what is clear is that it was the families who discovered the error and that is the only thing that explains the organiser's belated and defensive response.

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

I learned many years ago as a teenager who absolutely bled the races how cruel and hollow the Greatest Show on Earth truly is - through my own judgments and that of my Father. He was involved to a CoC level for many years - the first time I saw my Dad cry was when Phil Hogg died in morning practice “you knew when the radio said Situation India” it was him - he said - but evening practice went ahead 

The whole informing family etc has obviously changed - I waited as a kid for him to come home anything after 10pm or 8am was a bad one - it was a given that the CoC of the practice or race was present to break the news to team or family.

He had to break the worst news to families that are close to ours  - MGP predominantly with a Verandah & a Signpost fatality- the latter being most troubling as the riders sister worked alongside my Dad - all this in a cold concrete room 2 floors up in stairwell of the Grandstand with a window to the beer tent.

The recent events and a chat with an 80+ year old man whom I’m lucky to still have as a father drum it home to me..

His take now “It only happens because they make them run it there will always be riders”

 

[littlebushy]

10 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The newspaper article may be a bit garbled and I did wonder if the brother went first to the Island, realised the mistake and then went to the hospital in Liverpool.  As I said it's quite quick to do even a preliminary inquest, though it's possible the Coroner was sitting anyway on the Monday and decided to expedite matters.  But what is clear is that it was the families who discovered the error and that is the only thing that explains the organiser's belated and defensive response.

This!