0bserver Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 In his interview with Paul Moulton, Alf Cannan comes across a bit Borissy- he's annoyed that Moulton dares ask the questions. I would respect Cannan a lot more if he nailed his colours to the post on this one - rather than give a wishy washy answer. Either say he's 100% comfortable with deaths during the TT and they're a price worth paying to maintain the greatest show on earth. Or say that personally he's not comfortable with any deaths during TT. What he's come out with just doesn't seem to fit together. As CM he should at least be comfortable talking about the subject. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banky Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 36 minutes ago, Youaintseenme said: It was in the news yesterday that spectators were injured. I think it is pretty safe to assume from that that spectators witnessed stuff? What point are you trying to make? Without releasing too much info, a young German lad had a concussion, and went to hospital more from shock. Old lad was caught on the shoulder, and refused any further help after visiting paramedic had checked him over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I've got mixed feelings about this. I've got a lot of acquaintances in the racing scene (and lost a few too), their belief in what they do is unassailable, simple as that. Everything else goes out the window in their pursuit of their chosen sport. "They died doing what they loved" is the standard defence on every occasion. People pause briefly and then move on. But the fact is, they might have been doing what they loved but they didn't expect to die doing it. Nobody does, it's human nature - shit happens to somebody else. So knowing the risks is one thing - recognising them in respect of oneself is another. Part of this issue is the direction that the TT itself has taken. The TT was never intended as an Island revenue earner to the degree that it's now being exploited as and to do so is dangerous IMO. Dangerous as in danger to life. The TT course is not a BSB course to which you can attach all the razzmatazz and media circus because it's far and away more dangerous. The event's exploitation and commercialisation is an increase in pressure to the competitors, especially those lower down the field. Why? Because the TT is run as a time trial and even those with no chance of winning are pursuing coveted replicas with the criteria of finishing within a percentage of the winner's time. When those winners get ever faster through funding and machinery available to them it obliges the rest to also push harder in order to try and qualify for their replicas. Push too hard maybe. I personally think that deaths in the event have tacit Govt acceptance, it was always so. Maybe two a year and it can be played down and ridden out, collateral for the economic benefits. More than that and the shit now hits the fan, especially with there being so many and so long since such. There's much less public acceptance of multiple deaths these days, we haven't had a World War recently to harden society to it. Govt also chances its arm on the nature of those deaths. Out in the countryside on a morning practice over the years with not too many (if any witnesses) and it was sad but business as normal. Now with the rising speed (see previous paras) and spectator levels it's become a problem...particularly when it's involving those spectators as we've seen this year and in the recent past. Totally unacceptable and the UK media won't let it go in a hurry. In the name of money and a short term view, Govt is pushing the event towards a tipping point. 13 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: I've got mixed feelings about this. I've got a lot of acquaintances in the racing scene (and lost a few too), their belief in what they do is unassailable, simple as that. Everything else goes out the window in their pursuit of their chosen sport. "They died doing what they loved" is the standard defence on every occasion. People pause briefly and then move on. But the fact is, they might have been doing what they loved but they didn't expect to die doing it. Nobody does, it's human nature - shit happens to somebody else. So knowing the risks is one thing - recognising them in respect of oneself is another. Part of this issue is the direction that the TT itself has taken. The TT was never intended as an Island revenue earner to the degree that it's now being exploited as and to do so is dangerous IMO. Dangerous as in danger to life. The TT course is not a BSB course to which you can attach all the razzmatazz and media circus because it's far and away more dangerous. The event's exploitation and commercialisation is an increase in pressure to the competitors, especially those lower down the field. Why? Because the TT is run as a time trial and even those with no chance of winning are pursuing coveted replicas with the criteria of finishing within a percentage of the winner's time. When those winners get ever faster through funding and machinery available to them it obliges the rest to also push harder in order to try and qualify for their replicas. Push too hard maybe. I personally think that deaths in the event have tacit Govt acceptance, it was always so. Maybe two a year and it can be played down and ridden out, collateral for the economic benefits. More than that and the shit now hits the fan, especially with there being so many and so long since such. There's much less public acceptance of multiple deaths these days, we haven't had a World War recently to harden society to it. Govt also chances its arm on the nature of those deaths. Out in the countryside on a morning practice over the years with not too many (if any witnesses) and it was sad but business as normal. Now with the rising speed (see previous paras) and spectator levels it's become a problem...particularly when it's involving those spectators as we've seen this year and in the recent past. Totally unacceptable and the UK media won't let it go in a hurry. In the name of money and a short term view, Govt is pushing the event towards a tipping point. Very well put. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdesk Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: I've got mixed feelings about this. I've got a lot of acquaintances in the racing scene (and lost a few too), their belief in what they do is unassailable, simple as that. Everything else goes out the window in their pursuit of their chosen sport. "They died doing what they loved" is the standard defence on every occasion. People pause briefly and then move on. You forgot Mount Everest. There always has to be a comparison to climbing Mount Everest to go along with the they died doing what they loved bit. If it wasn’t for people dying up Mount Everest we’d be stuffed apparently. But you’re right that is one of the most lucid and sensible posts I’ve seen about the TT in the last week. It’s all about money too now. A pitch at the grandstand was £15-20K, the licensing of the ‘merch’ is raking in fees, and the allegedly sold out TT beanie hats people are now putting on eBay for double the price. Edited June 16, 2022 by Newsdesk Beanie hat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVibes Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I've got mixed feelings about this, but I have a lot of friends who own burger vans... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I think it’s less about the questions and more about how Paul Moulton tells them, unfortunately Paul Moulton is just a Poundland Piers Morgan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Youaintseenme said: I don’t think you understand what contradict means? Once again, you prove how futile it is to debate the TT with those that are blinded by it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I saw there's a crowd funder now for the father and son that were killed. I hate the thought that their family now have to rely on crowdfunding 🙁 If Government are going to continue with the current format of the TT then they need to pay out a sum to the families of riders that are killed here. £500k per rider would be fair. It would also focus minds on reducing the body count. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, 0bserver said: I saw there's a crowd funder now for the father and son that were killed. I hate the thought that their family now have to rely on crowdfunding 🙁 If Government are going to continue with the current format of the TT then they need to pay out a sum to the families of riders that are killed here. £500k per rider would be fair. It would also focus minds on reducing the body count. Why? Presumably competitors race elsewhere and are able to/should make their own life assurance arrangements. Many race for teams that compete in other races, so the teams should make life assurance arrangements, surely? What about the riders' benevolent fund? It is a risky occupation, competitors should make whatever arrangements are necessary to deal with their personal financial requirements. The only concession, possibly, is to think about a group life assurance policy for competitors so that the risk is pooled and premia are then, possibly, more affordable for the teams/riders. That may already exist. At the end of the day, competing is voluntary and just because a crowd funder exists does not mean the family are reliant on it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Gladys said: Why? Presumably competitors race elsewhere and are able to/should make their own life assurance arrangements. Many race for teams that compete in other races, so the teams should make life assurance arrangements, surely? What about the riders' benevolent fund? It is a risky occupation, competitors should make whatever arrangements are necessary to deal with their personal financial requirements. The only concession, possibly, is to think about a group life assurance policy for competitors so that the risk is pooled and premia are then, possibly, more affordable for the teams/riders. That may already exist. At the end of the day, competing is voluntary and just because a crowd funder exists does not mean the family are reliant on it. Don’t the organisers provide limited life and injury insurance. But these things take time to claim, pay out. And it may not cover things like family travel, loss of earnings, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Chances are the crowdfunded is being done by friends because they want to do “something” to help, not necessarily because the family will be destitute without it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Seeing as insurance is basically gambling and the odds of death or life changing injury must be very high, I'm struggling to see why any company would offer any kind of insurance. Overly simplified example - say they pay out £1m for death or long term hospitalisation. That's £8m this year. Out of 100 competitors? Each competitor would have to pay a minimum premium of £80000 for the company to break even. If I were running an insurance company I would not be offering insurance to racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, John Wright said: Don’t the organisers provide limited life and injury insurance. But these things take time to claim, pay out. And it may not cover things like family travel, loss of earnings, etc. They could could well do, John. There is also the benevolent fund which, if it doesn't help with the immediate expenses, perhaps should be beefed up. I not sure that a 500k payout from (not sure who) would alleviate that initial and immediate need. No problem with a crowd funder, that is up to the family and those who want to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bserver Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, Gladys said: Why? Presumably competitors race elsewhere and are able to/should make their own life assurance arrangements. Many race for teams that compete in other races, so the teams should make life assurance arrangements, surely? Because morally it would be the right thing to do. If the TT generates so much money for the Manx exchequer then there should be no issue with a scheme like this. I'm not aware of another motorcycle race with a similar annual body count. Is there one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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