TT 2022 ??

[Annoymouse]

‘Couldn’t identify due to blunt force trauma’ is absolutely shocking to read, on the one hand I think more people should hear the grim reality of these type of impacts because there is the likelihood that as a spectator or marshal you could witness an incident like this. On the other hand it’s really quite horrible for the families to read and I don’t think anyone will want their loved ones used as an example.

 

[WTF]

2 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said:

I don't doubt what you're saying Max but does anything really come from it ? The T.T. must always go on. This year it was five deaths but it could've been six, seven, eight, nine.... it wouldn't stop it all happening again next year. I don't think everyone truly understands that.

it could also have been NO deaths, you seem to have overlooked that.

[Max Power]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

If they actually did this then people would be less angry. I haven't seen any examples though. Vast quantities of money seem to be spent making the course faster rather than safer.

Vast amounts have been spent on Recticel barriers, placing boards at known places to deflect away from trees, gateposts etc. These have worked and saved lives and serious injury in the places where the solo fatalities occurred. Unfortunately they don't work in every instance so the conclusion is that the course can never be made 100% safe.  

3 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Because the TT has now been moved up several gears in being commercialised as a revenue earning spectacle. More speed = more spectacle. It's not about manufacturers selling bikes anymore, it's about selling coverage and rights, TV or otherwise.

The question is, given the nature of the course and event itself, is this the thing to do? Because if the money men break the TT in the course of exploiting it, they won't be bothered, they'll just move on to the next opportunity.

I don't think the TT has been deliberately set up to create more speed, the advances in machinery and tyres are the factors which do that. The speed is secondary to close racing as far as a spectacle is concerned in most people's eyes. 

3 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said:

I don't doubt what you're saying Max but does anything really come from it ? The T.T. must always go on. This year it was five deaths but it could've been six, seven, eight, nine.... it wouldn't stop it all happening again next year. I don't think everyone truly understands that.

I would hope that the sidecar incidents would never happen again and that further steps are taken to mitigate the likelihood, I'm certain that they will be. The two solo incidents happened in places where precautions had been taken, accidents had happened previously with much better outcomes. I don't know the full circumstances but I'm sure that if anything can be done it will.

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

I think a lot of people understand it. Sadly not those with influence. The irony will be that the intransigence of those who love it and organise it will ultimately be responsible for its downfall.

I don't see any intransigence, unless you mean that the races should just be stopped? 

[Happier diner]

3 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Vast amounts have been spent on Recticel barriers, placing boards at known places to deflect away from trees, gateposts etc. These have worked and saved lives and serious injury in the places where the solo fatalities occurred. Unfortunately they don't work in every instance so the conclusion is that the course can never be made 100% safe.  

I don't think the TT has been deliberately set up to create more speed, the advances in machinery and tyres are the factors which do that. The speed is secondary to close racing as far as a spectacle is concerned in most people's eyes. 

I would hope that the sidecar incidents would never happen again and that further steps are taken to mitigate the likelihood, I'm certain that they will be. The two solo incidents happened in places where precautions had been taken, accidents had happened previously with much better outcomes. I don't know the full circumstances but I'm sure that if anything can be done it will.

I don't see any intransigence, unless you mean that the races should just be stopped? 

Barriers around posts etc are, imo, things to reduce impact after a crash has happened. I am talking about measures to reduce crashes in the first place (mitigations) as well as these things you talk about which are contingencies. 

Money has been spent reprofiling the road at keppell gate and the creg

I see enormously high levels of intransigence 

[AOR]

6 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I see enormously high levels of intransigence 

Intransigence from what?
Just because an organisation isn't going the way a polarised view wants it to, is not intransigence.

[Max Power]

10 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Barriers around posts etc are, imo, things to reduce impact after a crash has happened. I am talking about measures to reduce crashes in the first place (mitigations) as well as these things you talk about which are contingencies. 

Money has been spent reprofiling the road at keppell gate and the creg

I see enormously high levels of intransigence 

Of course the road has been maintained, I'm not sure what you mean? Reprofiling the road improves safety first and foremost. Not only for the TT but for other road users. The big changes, Quarry Bends, Windy Corner and Brandywell were done to remove road accident black spots, to the disappointment of many TT supporters and competitors.

Can you enlighten us on this intransigence you see?

I can talk from a lot of experience when I say that the root cause of 99.9% of crashes is rider error or misjudgement. 

[Boris Johnson]

1 minute ago, Max Power said:

Of course the road has been maintained, I'm not sure what you mean? Reprofiling the road improves safety first and foremost. Not only for the TT but for other road users. The big changes, Quarry Bends, Windy Corner and Brandywell were done to remove road accident black spots, to the disappointment of many TT supporters and competitors.

Can you enlighten us on this intransigence you see?

I can talk from a lot of experience when I say that the root cause of 99.9% of crashes is rider error or misjudgement. 

What do you think to the fatality at the 27th?

That is a know spot where there have been lots of crashes, Hutchinson was shown coming off there and re breaking his leg.

To my way of thinking that is a prime example of no proper safety precautions being undertaken.

I know there are blue barriers but they didn't work this year.

That corner could quite easily have a large run off area  on the outside dug into the hill ,finishing with multiple layers of the barriers.

Its a couple of weeks with a digger machine and then turf over it. It is not a multi million pound scheme, the doi are already tipping soil from the mountain beside the road where they dig it from so the most expensive part of excavation, paying the tipping cost, is very low.

THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THAT GUY TO DIE THERE THIS YEAR.

[Max Power]

2 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

What do you think to the fatality at the 27th?

That is a know spot where there have been lots of crashes, Hutchinson was shown coming off there and re breaking his leg.

To my way of thinking that is a prime example of no proper safety precautions being undertaken.

I know there are blue barriers but they didn't work this year.

That corner could quite easily have a large run off area  on the outside dug into the hill ,finishing with multiple layers of the barriers.

Its a couple of weeks with a digger machine and then turf over it. It is not a multi million pound scheme, the doi are already tipping soil from the mountain beside the road where they dig it from so the most expensive part of excavation, paying the tipping cost, is very low.

THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THAT GUY TO DIE THERE THIS YEAR.

To be fair that is a dangerous spot for road traffic also. I'm not a civil engineer but I imagine that the task of cutting away that bank would be enormous? You would need to hold back the weight of North Barrule somehow, I have wondered the same thing myself and come to that conclusion.  

[Non-Believer]

36 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I don't think the TT has been deliberately set up to create more speed, the advances in machinery and tyres are the factors which do that. The speed is secondary to close racing as far as a spectacle is concerned in most people's eyes.

Oh come on Max, it's been the primary objective over the last few years, the ever increasing lap records and as Dave Moly himself has stated he got sucked into it as much as anybody else. Some people claim its a dick swinging contest with the UGP, who knows? But certainly there's been a concerted effort (IMHO) to relentlessly push the speeds up and up. For instance, the commentary team this year only had 3 subjects that they were interested in talking about, the names of the first six competitors in any race, the names of the major sponsors and the potential to see the respective lap record broken.

[Non-Believer]

3 minutes ago, Max Power said:

To be fair that is a dangerous spot for road traffic also. I'm not a civil engineer but I imagine that the task of cutting away that bank would be enormous? You would need to hold back the weight of North Barrule somehow, I have wondered the same thing myself and come to that conclusion.  

If Dandara were given a development site there it wouldn't be a problem.....

[Max Power]

4 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Oh come on Max, it's been the primary objective over the last few years, the ever increasing lap records and as Dave Moly himself has stated he got sucked into it as much as anybody else. Some people claim its a dick swinging contest with the UGP, who knows? But certainly there's been a concerted effort (IMHO) to relentlessly push the speeds up and up. For instance, the commentary team this year only had 3 subjects that they were interested in talking about, the names of the first six competitors in any race, the names of the major sponsors and the potential to see the respective lap record broken.

What commentary teams say and do is not what competitors respond to, their job is to excite the crowds. The promoters likewise, the riders mindset is to win, as slowly as possible.

[Non-Believer]

7 minutes ago, Max Power said:

What commentary teams say and do is not what competitors respond to, their job is to excite the crowds. The promoters likewise, the riders mindset is to win, as slowly as possible.

I don't think that's in Hicky and Deano's mindsets on the startline though somehow and if it were me there in their position (some hope) it wouldn't be mine either.

With the TT being run on a time trial basis the only option is to go like hell and hope that it's quicker than the other competitors that you may not even see during the course of the race?

[Max Power]

5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

I don't think that's in Hicky and Deano's mindsets on the startline though somehow and if it were me there in their position (some hope) it wouldn't be mine either.

With the TT being run on a time trial basis the only option is to go like hell and hope that it's quicker than the other competitors that you may not even see during the course of the race?

That's true to an extent, good signalling around the course is important. Hickman backed off (if you can call it that) later in the races though. 

Those guys are generally never involved in accidents, despite their speed (touch wood), their levels of consciousness are way above the average rider and it seems that it's the average guys who are most vulnerable.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, AOR said:

Intransigence from what?
Just because an organisation isn't going the way a polarised view wants it to, is not intransigence.

 

On 6/19/2022 at 11:31 AM, Max Power said:

The island has long had the chance to develop a world class race circuit, Geoff Duke advised them several times through the 60s, 70s, 80s and the 90s that the Mountain Circuit is not going to be acceptable forever! He drew up plans for Andreas Airfield several times. Several other influential people have advised the government to build a proper circuit to either complement or replace the course, all on deaf ears! More recently, Sam Alder had plans drawn up for a world class track and facilities below Creg-ny Baa.

The time to have done it was probably the early 70s, when we had a tourism infrastructure to support a world championship round. The Mountain could have been used for classic racing, lower powered machines, the MGP etc and we would have maintained our motorsport heritage whilst giving respect to the past! 

It's long been a problem, lack of vision and an ability to persevere to make things work! The Motorsport team of the DofE can only work with what they have, personally I think they have done a great job with the TT and kept it going and relevant! 

I was kind of remembering Max Powers post

[WTF]

11 minutes ago, Max Power said:

 

Those guys are generally never involved in accidents, despite their speed (touch wood), their levels of consciousness are way above the average rider and it seems that it's the average guys who are most vulnerable.

they tend to just have one ,  though hutchy got away quite lightly in 2017.