Max Power Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Just now, Happier diner said: No procedures! That's one great big human error isn't it? You misunderstand, or just don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Max Power said: You misunderstand, or just don't want to. I don't misunderstood at all. If there was no procedure for getting stranded bikes back safely it tells me what an amateur set up is. Human error can exist at all levels and not just in a spur of a moment. I had the good grace to say that they were unlucky and many cases would have got away with it. It shouts to me how dangerous the whole thing is Edited December 28, 2021 by Happier diner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I don't misunderstood at all. If there was no procedure for getting stranded bikes back safely it tells me what an amateur set up is. Human error can exist at all levels and not just in a spur of a moment. I had the good grace to say that they were unlucky and many cases would have got away with it. It shouts to me how dangerous the whole thing is That's the mistake you are making, assuming that there was no tried and tested procedure, where did you dream that one up from, or are you just parodying Boris? Yes, human error as you say, but not because the procedure wasn't there to be followed. Edited December 28, 2021 by Max Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 Human error has to be allowed for in risk assessment, it is the main cause of accidents so you try and make any human error that will be made have a small as possible bad outcome. The procedure should have been as it has now been changed to - Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES are bike to travel the wrong way of the course. I would imagine most people would have thought that was what was in place at the time. Its criminal that it wasn't. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) . Edited January 11, 2022 by ManxTaxPayer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Helmut Fromage Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Max Power said: That's the mistake you are making, assuming that there was no tried and tested procedure, where did you dream that one up from, or are you just parodying Boris? Yes, human error as you say, but not because the procedure wasn't there to be followed. Max - even with your racing and post racing experience when have these particular against the natural flow of traffic been “tried and tested” written down yes but tested in real life? Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Helmut Fromage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) . Edited January 11, 2022 by ManxTaxPayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Max Power said: That's the mistake you are making, assuming that there was no tried and tested procedure, where did you dream that one up from, or are you just parodying Boris? Yes, human error as you say, but not because the procedure wasn't there to be followed. 1 hour ago, Max Power said: Why do you say lack of procedures? That indicates that there were no procedures to follow, and therein lies your error, see how easy it is to make one! I was reading your post. So then, are there procedures for this eventuality or not. You are being unclear. I'm sorry if I misunderstand your post but it is very confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) there are procedures, they don't all appear to have been implemented/followed, hence the fuck up. thinking no TM leading the returning riders and returning riders with traffic travelling the other way Edited December 28, 2021 by WTF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Boris Johnson said: The procedure should have been as it has now been changed to - Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES are bike to travel the wrong way of the course. I would imagine most people would have thought that was what was in place at the time. Its criminal that it wasn't. I stand to be corrected but I understand that riders returned to the grandstand the "wrong way" after the incident involving DJ without a problem. All I know is that I ( as a marshal) would not instruct a rider to leave once stopped unless specifically OK'd by race control . That said I remember an occasion when a rider stopped and was 'unable to rejoin' ( lack of fuel), confirmed with race control, but then decided to try , managed about 100 yds and parked up on the verge ( didn't have the nerve to return ) race control advised , hope he got a ban . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) . Edited January 11, 2022 by ManxTaxPayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Chatting to a Marshall yesterday who has done the job for years, loves the races, he has booked two weeks off work as per usual but has doubts whether the races will go ahead as he forsees a shortage of trained Marshalls being available, not a lot of interest apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 11, 2022 by ManxTaxPayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 42 minutes ago, ManxTaxPayer said: You know most of those cabs are just empty shells, on stage for visual purposes only. A bit like the dozens of marshals that congregate at Quarterbridge. 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) On 12/28/2021 at 7:44 PM, Mr Helmut Fromage said: Max - even with your racing and post racing experience when have these particular against the natural flow of traffic been “tried and tested” written down yes but tested in real life? I'd have said this had occurred at least five or six times, maybe more, with no issue, particularly over the past ten years or so leading up to the incident. Prior to this it was very rare to stop a race or practice session and it was introduced as it became more common to do so. Edited January 2, 2022 by Max Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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